Please help me comprehend

[JohnStrachan]

how a Catholic can be anything but opposed to the killing of pre-born children. I know this topic is pervasive on this site, but if you support the killing of pre-born children how do you reconcile that with your faith? I do not get it.

 

[Wesrock]

I don’t think you’ll find many Catholics on this website who support that. It’s clearly contrary to the Church’s moral dogma to support it. Though I know there are such Catholics out in “the wild”, so to speak.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

how a Catholic can be anything but opposed to the killing of pre-born children. I know this topic is pervasive on this site, but if you support the killing of pre-born children how do you reconcile that with your faith? I do not get it.

Some of them may be genuinely unaware of the Church’s teaching, not that that excuses their disregard for the sanctity of human life.

The rest… well, may God have mercy on their souls. It is a position that cannot be reconciled with the faith. The Church’s condemnation of abortion is so absolute and so final that short of an absolute failure in catechesis, the only explanation is willful disregard for her teachings.

This is not a popular opinion, plenty of people think they have this or that justification, but at the end of the day the Church unequivocally condemns abortion, so no Catholic can hold that abortion is acceptable and remain faithful to the Magisterium.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

The problem with that position is that the Church has made it clear that legal support of abortion is absolutely unacceptable.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

I think the only way someone can be pro-choice and not a monster is if they sincerely don’t believe a child in utereo is not a person yet. I don’t agree with that obviously, but I assume that’s what any pro-choice person of good will believes.

 

[JohnStrachan]

one should know that those who are pro-choice do not “support abortion”.

If I used the term pro-choice with respect to capital punishment would I not be saying i am okay with the state using coercive action to killing someone if it so chooses? This seems pretty clear to me that you are okay with capital punishment.

 

[Mark121359]

However, one should know that those who are pro-choice do not “support abortion”. They support the right for a woman to decide whether she wants to go through with a pregnancy or not.

That’s like saying, I really don’t support the rioting and pillaging that’s going on in American cities. But I support the right for individuals to decide whether or not they want to participate or not.

 

[o_mlly]

I think the only way someone can be pro-choice and not a monster is if they sincerely don’t believe a child in utereo is not a person yet. I don’t agree with that obviously, but I assume that’s what any pro-choice person of good will believes.

A belief that the child is not human in the womb does not permit a pro-choice attitude. One’s conscience must be certain before committing a gravely serious act such as abortion. If not then the teaching of the Church binds them. We are all bound since no one can be certain that the child is not human.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

If, as the Church teaches, abortion is murder, what else would we do? No religion, nor creed, nor personal moral beliefs give you the right to kill someone else. If abortion is doing that, then our stance is the only reasonable one. If you’re right, and they aren’t human, then it’s not a problem.

 

[JohnStrachan]

straw-men arguments.

What do you mean?

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

The only reasonable pro-choice condition is that the infant is not human, but from a Catholic standpoint, like this thread’s, we will likely be taking “The unborn are people” as given. All Catholics should know and agree with this statement, and the idea that one could know this and support abortion rightly baffled the OP.

 

[Diaconia]

At the end of the day, supporting abortion requires the killing of an innocent human being for someone else’s choice.

There’s really no way around that reality.

Children are a gift from God, like arrows in the quiver of a warrior,
Deacon Christopher

 

[JohnStrachan]

You yourself accused me of being okay with killing individuals.

My apologies, you were speaking in third person and I took it as first. Forgive me if i inferred a personal belief.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Not the topic of this thread.

 

[JohnStrachan]

There are plenty of solutions that aren’t even considered by pro-life folk.

Give us a solution other than a legal one that will eliminate abortion?

 

[Diaconia]

I understand your pragmatic point; better to limit abortion than to continue it at its current levels.

The trouble with that pragmatism is that it requires a non-starter for Catholics: What amount of innocent life taken is acceptable?

None, full stop.

That’s really where the rubber meets the road.

Deacon Christopher

 

[Dovekin]

BabyWitch:

one should know that those who are pro-choice do not “support abortion”.

If I used the term pro-choice with respect to capital punishment would I not be saying i am okay with the state using coercive action to killing someone if it so chooses? This seems pretty clear to me that you are okay with capital punishment.

This is an apt analogy. For years, the Church taught that the state had the right to kill people. Restrictions on that right led to a judgment that the state should never exercise that right. They still had the right, but it was wrong to do it.

Women have the right to choose to give birth. They should never choose not to give birth, but they are the only ones who have the right to that decision. The state, a parent, or even a husband does not have that right, just as a vigilante, a policeman or a criminal does not have the right to execute anyone. I support that woman’s right, though I do not think a woman should ever choose to not give birth. It is completely analogous to saying the state has the right to execute, but should never do it.

OTOH, I do not think the state has the right to take a person’s life, even though there is a long history of having it. I oppose capital punishment because the state does not have the right, and they should never exercise it if they did.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Women have the right to choose to give birth.

No. They have a responsibility to give birth.

Thus, the rest of your post is, well, hogwash.

 

[JohnStrachan]

• Universal Basic Income
• Tax Breaks for underprivileged mothers
• Paid Maternal Leave
• Universal Healthcare
• Free Childcare

I could go on…

Yes, practically speaking these policies make choosing motherhood easier. Morally however, choosing motherhood should be decided on before one is actually pregnant. Once pregnant you have a duty to give birth as the pregnancy is ordered in that direction.

 

[Dovekin]

Dovekin:

Women have the right to choose to give birth.

No. They have a responsibility to give birth.

Thus, the rest of your post is, well, hogwash.

And the state has a responsibility ot defend the lives of everybody, even the guiltiest of serial killers? I don’t see what your remark has to do with what I wrote.