Please help me understand!

[Becks]

Hello there.

Then you’re not converting to Catholicism; you’re converting to another protestant church.

Inasmuch as Jesus promised that his church would prevail, the bishop is saying that the Roman Catholic church is not that church, because it hasn’t prevailed. Which makes him a schismatic and a heretic. And from what I understand, a sedevacantist. And not a bishop in good standing, either. Hardly an impressive position in which to be.

The people are always obligated to follow the pope and his bishops. That’s what makes us Catholic. And we don’t only do it when we agree with them about everything. If we disagree, we try and talk it through. We don’t sulk and go off to form our own church like the sedevacantists.

‘Modernism’ is one of those words that can be made to mean almost anything - in this case, ‘people who don’t accept what Bishop Louis says’. Damning the vast majority of Catholics in this way betokens a really adolescent attitude - ‘they don’t agree with me, so they’re all going to hell.’

Yes, people like the bishop have done a good job of feeding you contradictory and erroneous information. Shame on them.

If you’d been raised Catholic, you’d see how wrong the things you’re saying are.

There have always been self-proclaimed ‘real’ catholics like the bishop around, and guess what? They and their followers disappear within a generation or two at most, and the true church goes on and on.

Please visit a priest in good standing and find out where you’re going wrong. Or ask one of the apologists on this forum why the sedevacantist position is in error. You’re being badly misled about what catholicism truly is. Prayers and best wishes.

Second!

 

[BOB323]

Cure,
I think you should check your facts. Gene Robinson isn’t even a Catholic. He is an Episcopalian…

 

[Cure]

I would like to sincerely thank everyone who is trying to give me understanding in this issue.

Yes BRZ, I do believe in the church, and it what it is suppose to represent. I don’t know if you’re being sarcastic or insulting, but you seem to think that I am trying to disrespect the church…I am not. I do believe in the church, but not believe in heads of the church who try to use their position, to do their own will, and try to disguise it as God’s will.

The Bishop that I follow has not decided that the CHURCH is wrong; he saw that those who are suppose to be the leaders of the church are wrong, and it is THEY who he refuses to follow. He did not turn his back on the church.

Ocarm, Becks, maybe you’re both right; maybe because I was not raised Catholic I cannot understand.

I have been taught out of a Catechism that was printed before Vatican II in the 1960s. After Vatican II, things changed. Most people my age are not familiar with this Catechism.

Some of these “Catholics” think its okay to be a Catholic and a Mason…where as my Catechism clearly states that secret societies are not allowed. In class I was also taught that if a person of authority takes immoral decision, then that person’s authority is no longer valid. Pope…bishop…whoever. These same “Catholics” (who are Masons) disagree, saying that a person’s position makes them incapable of leading others astray.

If the Pope were to murder someone, then say “God told me to do it”, there are many who would support him, simply because he is Pope. And I think that that is wrong.

 

[Cure]

Thanks Bob!

 

[mary_bobo]

Cure, I can feel that you are really struggling with all of this. One thing to keep in mind is that the Holy Father (Pope) is infallible only in matters of faith and morals. He is just a human like the rest of us and can make mistakes. I am not saying that our present pope is guilty of this, but I think you should keep in mind in what ways the pope is considered infallible.

There are good priests and bad priests, just as there are good and bad people. As you learn more and more about the Church you will see what I am talking about. The pre-60’s catechism that you are using is probably close to the one I learned my faith from when I attended Catholic schools. The basic tenets of the Church have not changed. And you are correct when you say that Catholics may not be Masons. If you are learning this in your classes, I hope you will consider trying another RCIA class in a different Catholic Church.

I will pray that you find your way and that the Good Shepherd will bring you home soon. God bless.

 

[Cure]

Thank you ma’am, for explaining this, rather then firing off as many insults as you could find because we are not in total agreement. I will look deeper into this. I want there to be no doubt that I am doing the right thing.

By the way, my comments are not meant to be harsh; but I will never get the answers if I don’t express the concerns.

 

[BRZ]

Cure, I never said anything that was insulting. An insult would be if I said you were crazy or stupid, but I didn’t. What I said was that your views were wrong and why. That is not an insult. I apologize if I came off as harsh, I was not trying to be. I can be a little insensitive sometimes I suppose but it isn’t because I want to be that way, it is just my personality. There is nothing wrong with asking questions, that is important but your first post was more accusations rather then questions cure. If you have questions ask, but you should not assume something is correct then. Assumptions means you think you already know the answers and that is not a question. Also, some of what I said before was not intended for you but for statements said by someone else.

Here is an example, this is what you said:

From what I have learned in Catechism class, when a leader of the church (Pope, bishop…whoever) has gone against the laws of the church, then the people are no longer obligated to follow them. When I talk to “modernist” Catholics, they insist that no wrong has been done in Rome, or in the church, and continue to follow the Pope blindly, convinced that he would never lead them astray.

I’m really confused. WHY can people who call themselves Catholics not see that there is something wrong in the church? I was not raised Catholic…and yet I see it! How can CATHOLICS not see it? Are they so blinded by their obligation to obey, that they would follow their so-called leaders straight to hell?

Now really look at what you said. Can’t you see how offensive that might be? You are claiming that there are so many problems in the Church, which you can see, but those who were born Catholic can’t. You are claiming that certain people are “modernist” Catholics who blindly follow the Pope and basically can’t think for themselves. Then you say that those who follow the Pope will end up in hell. Can’t you see how offensive such statements are? Please evaluate what you yourself say before posting how insulting others might be to you and trying to make yourself into a victim.

Anyway, the point is, that if the Bishop you follow is labeled as a heretic and schismatic, then you should not be following him. One man is not the Church, the Church is more then just one man. It is okay to disagree with some things you feel might be wrong about the Church, but it is not okay to go so far as to put yourself outside the Church. That solves nothing and only creates a much larger problem, look at Martin Luther and what happened because of what he did. He also just originally disagreed with certain things going on in the Church. One thing you should realize is that whatever may be wrong with the Church always ends up fixing itself with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Cure]

Can’t you see how offensive that might be? You are claiming that there are so many problems in the Church, which you can see, but those who were born Catholic can’t. You are claiming that certain people are “modernist” Catholics who blindly follow the Pope and basically can’t think for themselves. Then you say that those who follow the Pope will end up in hell. Can’t you see how offensive such statements are?

Ah, BRZ

It’s odd how sometimes one cannot see their own mistakes until those mistakes are pointed out. Now looking at it, I can see how I myself was being insulting to Catholics. I guess sometimes when I get too passionate about something I don’t think clearly. I apologize.

The thing is…up until my post on this site…it actually did seem that way. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve tried to talk with people in other Catholic churches to try getting a better understanding. Everyone seemed to completely disregard my questions and say, “The Pope cannot be wrong.”

Even when I would describe the pictures that I saw of John Paul (I described these pictures in an earlier post), they would say…”he was just trying to bring the world together,” then smile, as if his actions had been acceptable. I would look at these people in shocking disbelief.

After getting these same replies over and over again, I couldn’t help but to get a bit angry. It’s not that I wanted people to say…”yea, the Pope was a heretic…” because that’s not what I was after. What I wanted to do is open up people’s eyes to the fact that the Pope was no saint, and that some of the things that he did were not in line with Catholic teachings. But everyone I spoke with seemed determined to just shut their eyes tight and insist that he was, and that everything he did was justified simply because of the position he held.

It did seem that people were blinded.

I’m glad I posted my concerns here, because you and a few others have actually given me good answers, and I am grateful for that. Thank you. I’m done.

 

[gookykookypig]

… Rock… rock. rock the boat.

We as Catholics are not blind on what is happening within the Church. Yet we do not tolerate them. Some of us maybe stunt in our actions but who knows, maybe some of us are fervently praying for these dangers inside the Church. We as Catholics had the very responsibility to correct the human errors that had been churning from the days of the apostles. But God doesn’t expect us to run amok. He expects many of us to pray just a little or a little more, and he’ll raise some mighty men to really blow these erring people out of the Church.

This is what we hold until this day, that the Church will be suffering just as her Spouse had suffered. And as the Hebrew expression. “terror on every side!” says it, we know there will be terrors in every corner. Outside, we have the anti-catholics. Inside we have the hidden anti-catholics. This is our hope, that we must remain faithful to our stand inside the Church of Christ. As the wheat, we are not ask to uproot ourselves but to endure our growing with the weeds, which the Harvester and all his tenants will burn up in the day of reaping.

Please pray furthermore for the Church, that she might endure her inner ails and her outer plagues. By her present purgation and suffering, Our Lord Jesus Christ will bring her to himself holy and blameless, without spot and blemish. (Ephesians 5:27)

 

[pucherito]

Cure i am interested as to who you are learning catechism from. i also have converted from protestantism and was able to see the errors of the novus order. i have been under Bishop Louis for the last 10 years, and God help me to remain faithful to the only true Bishops left in the Church. i must say most of the novus ordites are blind and lost, and u must not listen to what errors they have been falsely taught.