Please Help Me Understand

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YinYangMom:
… and yet, looking at the history of the Church over the years, our situation is no worse than earlier ones.
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Hello, Yin Yang,

I just had to clarify something?

You must mean WITHIN the Church we are no worse off, for if you meant we are no worse off in the Church’s opposition FROM WITHOUT, you must be out of your mind, or perhaps completely clueless about history!

In AD 1100 or so, the primary opposition to the Church is the Muslims and then the Schismatics, who believe basically everything Catholics believe except mainly the supremacy of the Roman Bishop.

In AD 1600 or so, the primary opposition to the Church includes not only all of the preceding but also myriads of competing Heretics, who deny not only the authority of the Roman Bishop, but also the entire conglomerate of Bishops in General and the Oral Tradition, retaining a Scipture-only Christianity.

In AD 1800 or so, the enemies of the Church include not only all of the preceding but now Infidels (Deists and Rationalists), persons who are no longer even Christians, and who only acknowledge natural religion and reduce it to a mere few principles that are common to all religions: (I) there must be some Supreme Being (II) We should honor this Supreme Being in some sense (III) We should try to be virtuous (IV) If we fail morally, we should feel regret (V) there must be some system of reward or punishment in the afterlife.

In **AD 2000 **or so, the opposition to the Church includes not only all of the preceding, but now a primary culture that is practically, if not actually fully or nearly fully Apostate, taking two primary forms: atheistic materialism, or hedonistic, relativistic materialism.

And so you were saying that Church’s modern situation is no worse off than any other? Honestly, you must not be talking in spiritual language.
 
This is a good question with a simple answer. People in the modern society are influenced by the world. We might even say that they have it forced on them. All day every day we are surrounded by people that believe that the faith is out of step with the times. What they do not understand is that our faith should define our times. They tell us that we need to relax our standards in order to stay in step. This, of course, is a lie. The bottom line is that the strength of faith is that it remains constant. This is why the church has stood for 2000 years and will be around 2000 more. America is a Democracy…the Catholic Church is not. Period. People in the pews do not make the decisions…only the successor of Peter gets to do that. This makes some people angry, but like Luther they are simply trying to justify their behavior as being ok. Nothing more.

The Lord be with you all.

Brad
 
Dear Yin Yang Mom,

Actually, I would like to apologize for the harshness of my reply. Please forgive me, I am prone to sinful anger in my religion. What I really just wanted to clarify was, there has been a gradual worsening in spiritual opposition to the Church over the last Millennium or so, so that I don’t really agree that the world is in no worse off shape spiritually now than it ever has been.

But, again, I am sorry for the sarcasm and harshness. I will try to be more nice and respectful in the future.

Yours in her and her Son,
scott
 
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sadie2723:
This is a good question with a simple answer. People in the modern society are influenced by the world. We might even say that they have it forced on them. All day every day we are surrounded by people that believe that the faith is out of step with the times. What they do not understand is that our faith should define our times. They tell us that we need to relax our standards in order to stay in step. This, of course, is a lie. The bottom line is that the strength of faith is that it remains constant. This is why the church has stood for 2000 years and will be around 2000 more. America is a Democracy…the Catholic Church is not. Period. People in the pews do not make the decisions…only the successor of Peter gets to do that. This makes some people angry, but like Luther they are simply trying to justify their behavior as being ok. Nothing more.

The Lord be with you all.

Brad
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I totally agree with your statement. The first priest I knew in my small town for 20 years was the friendly personable type who knew everyone and is well loved but danced around issues at the pulpit to be sure he didn’t step on any toes on any issue. For me at that time, I was a lukewarm Catholic who didn’t understand his faith well and the priests message didn’t teach me much. But he was very much loved. Our new priest wasn’t nearly as personable since he had a harder time remembering individuals and he has stood up for what the church teaches. I was rather surprised in the confessional when he said he couldn’t hear my confession because of my status in the church. (civil remarriage w/ my 1st marriage not annulled) I must say I was rather floored but in time and his guidance, I’m patiently waiting from the tribunal to get my situation resolved. I’m just disheartened when I have met many Catholics in my community who have stopped going to Mass because of our priest who has stood up for what the Church preaches. IMO, I think too many Catholics try to bend the way it should be with God by trying to change everything from within they don’t like versus changing our ways to follow God.

Just my 2 cents
 
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blueadept:
I totally agree with your statement. The first priest I knew in my small town for 20 years was the friendly personable type who knew everyone and is well loved but danced around issues at the pulpit to be sure he didn’t step on any toes on any issue. For me at that time, I was a lukewarm Catholic who didn’t understand his faith well and the priests message didn’t teach me much. But he was very much loved. Our new priest wasn’t nearly as personable since he had a harder time remembering individuals and he has stood up for what the church teaches. I was rather surprised in the confessional when he said he couldn’t hear my confession because of my status in the church. (civil remarriage w/ my 1st marriage not annulled) I must say I was rather floored but in time and his guidance, I’m patiently waiting from the tribunal to get my situation resolved. I’m just disheartened when I have met many Catholics in my community who have stopped going to Mass because of our priest who has stood up for what the Church preaches. IMO, I think too many Catholics try to bend the way it should be with God by trying to change everything from within they don’t like versus changing our ways to follow God.

Just my 2 cents
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That could not be more correct. The father of the girl that I am dating right now is a Fundamentalist who thinks that people tend to leave the Catholic church because they think that the Chruch teaches something that is unbiblical. As I have had to explain to him, that is almost never the case. Rather, people leave over the fact that they can’t get a divorce, can’t have an abortion, or can’t use birth control. They leave because the Church will not change its view to accomodate the views of the world…and that is why I love her so much. Let us not forget that Peter was the ROCK on which the church was built. The key word there is ROCK. And as long as the Church stands firm on her beliefs. in the way that a building that is built on a rock foundation will stand firm, the Church is always going to fly in the face of the world from time to time. Let us never forget that we are not hear to bring the world views into the Church…but to beat those views back at the door.

Holy Mary Mother of God…Pray For Us!!!

Brad
 
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spauline:
Dear Yin Yang Mom,

Actually, I would like to apologize for the harshness of my reply. Please forgive me, I am prone to sinful anger in my religion. What I really just wanted to clarify was, there has been a gradual worsening in spiritual opposition to the Church over the last Millennium or so, so that I don’t really agree that the world is in no worse off shape spiritually now than it ever has been.

But, again, I am sorry for the sarcasm and harshness. I will try to be more nice and respectful in the future.

Yours in her and her Son,
scott
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No problem, Scott…I didn’t find your reply harsh at all. You are fervent in your desire to defend the truth, that’s what showed through in your post, and that’s a good thing.

I guess what I was saying, and what you confirmed, is that the attacks are persistent. I don’t believe the U.S. or the world is in as bad a shape as Sodom and Gommorrah - yet. I don’t even think we’re close, though it’s bad, that’s for certain, and it seems we’re going in the wrong direction.

But rather than get angry or upset about the attacks the Church is undergoing - from outside and from within - I find myself charged up for battle with prayer. I keep reminding myself that these people - these 'movement’s - aren’t the real problem - it’s Satan and his minions, plain and simple,. Then I keep hearing Fr. Corapi’s voice in my head talking about the most powerful weapon we Catholics possess - the Rosary - and I start praying it every time I witness yet another sign of Satan’s attack on the Church.

These people offending Christ and His Church need our help. They are being worn down and used, we must pray for them, reach out to them, educate them, guide them, support them not cut them loose or cast them aside.
 
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MBS1:
Nope. That is the attitude of many in the Catholic Church…

By the way, welcome back!!!

MBS1
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Well said. “That is the attitude of many in the Catholic church”…but not the attitude OF the Catholic Church :).
 
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mastda:
As a recent revert back to the Roman Catholic Church, I am very confused about the issue of people claiming to be Catholic, they attend mass weekly, take communion but do not agree with most of what we teach. Then go one step further and instead of changing themselves they want to change the church!
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The Church is not a dictatorship. The only beleif required to be Christian of any sort is a beleif that Jesus was the son of God and died to eliminate sin. The Church is a physical thing and is open to reform.
 
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MBS1:
I remember a young priest a few years ago talking to our people about the “faulty” theology of some Protestant churches during a homily. I felt it was about time someone told the truth about it. However, he was roundly chastised by many in the congregation - many of whom have had friends or relatives leave the Catholic Church to go to the big Protestant church with the faulty theology. Go figure.

MBS1
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Being a Christian requires a beleif in Jesus as the Savior. Nothing else. Why is this hard to understand?
 
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Liberalsaved:
Being a Christian requires a beleif in Jesus as the Savior. Nothing else. Why is this hard to understand?
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You need to be more specific. Satan himself believes (in fact, he knows) that Jesus is the Savior.
 
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exoflare:
You need to be more specific. Satan himself believes (in fact, he knows) that Jesus is the Savior.
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Addendum: and you don’t go around killing and raping and maiming and being generally anti-social. 😃
 
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Liberalsaved:
Addendum: and you don’t go around killing and raping and maiming and being generally anti-social. 😃
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But stealing is okay, right? 😉
 
There are many, cultural Catholics. They see Catholicism as a birth-rite and not as a belief.

I know a few of them and have asked…why don’t you go to a Protestant church? The answer is that they were raised Catholic but they no longer believe what the Church teaches. They just consider themselves Catholic as they would Irish or German.
 
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Liberalsaved:
Being a Christian requires a beleif in Jesus as the Savior. Nothing else. Why is this hard to understand?
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Matthew 25 seems to contradict you.

Peace.
John
 
mastda,

To go back to your original post, it is very sad that so many Catholics do have the mindset that they do, even the ones that do go to church every Sunday. I have come to the realization that to be a true Catholic, one must be totally Catholic, not just a pick and choose kind of Catholic. It’s all or nothing.

Now, some “non-practicing church-going” Catholics are wooed out of the church but the majority of them stay for reasons that are not really understood to me.

I believe the reason is grace. I know this might sound far fetched but these people know that there is something about Catholicism that is true. They reject some of the beliefs but do not church hop like most protestants would do. There is something that is keeping them here.

When one examines the option outside the Catholic church, there is nothing outside the church that offers anything more than the Catholic church offers. THe Eucharist, saints, mass, Mary, history, etc. You can’t beat it. There is no replacement. Sure some people say that this church and that church have a better bible study or a better day care. Its just not the same. Leaving the Catholic Church to a protestant denomination is like dropping from the major league to Triple A baseball.

That’s all I have right now.
 
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Pjs2ejs:
Leaving the Catholic Church to a protestant denomination is like dropping from the major league to Triple A baseball.
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Well said! 👍
 
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mastda:
As a recent revert back to the Roman Catholic Church, I am very confused about the issue of people claiming to be Catholic, they attend mass weekly, take communion but do not agree with most of what we teach. Then go one step further and instead of changing themselves they want to change the church!

When I was a protestant, if a family did not like what was being preached they talked with the pastor and if things did not get resolved, the family looked for another church. But in the Catholic Churches, these people stay and try to change things and in doing so confuse many. Why is this?
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Because these people recognize that the Catholic Church is the Church and that schism is a grave sin. I only wish the Reformers had had the same attitude–we might all be in better shape today.

Edwin
 
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