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Strider
Guest
Anecdotal “evidence” given by a subset of the population, especially a subset that is living on the streets and making a living by questionable means is not trustworthy.
I’m not saying there is absolutely no abuse of these folks by any police officers anywhere, but given that this is an Amnesty International report of “surveys,” I’m underwhelmed. Amnesty International has a pronounced leftist agenda and a profound dislike of the United States.
I have been a police officer. 99.9% of the officers I know would not tolerate any of this, or anything even remotely like it, by their peers.
Sorry, but this thing stinks.
I’m not saying there is absolutely no abuse of these folks by any police officers anywhere, but given that this is an Amnesty International report of “surveys,” I’m underwhelmed. Amnesty International has a pronounced leftist agenda and a profound dislike of the United States.
I have been a police officer. 99.9% of the officers I know would not tolerate any of this, or anything even remotely like it, by their peers.
Sorry, but this thing stinks.
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Riley259
Guest
Guar Fan said:
People with SSA and transgendered individuals should always be treated with respect because they are made in the image of God. We should show them charity and understand that their disorder is often a burden for them. However, we should never endorse any homosexual relationship that involves a sexual relationship because this is disordered and sinful. The great difficulty is when we try to integrate these two mandates as faithful Christians. It’s a challenge and we need to consistently pray that we’re up to the challenge.
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Guar_Fan
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Yes, I wondered about that. The cops I have known have been professional and fundamentally decent people. They might laugh and joke about people who are unlike them, but they wouldn’t abuse them.
I wonder if Amnesty International isn’t trying too hard to show that they criticize first world nations and not just third world countries.
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Traditional_Ang
Guest
Guar Fan:
Sometime, Amnesty will ask their questions in such a way that even the slightest misunderstanding becomes “Abuse”… Esp. since they emotionally can’t deal with Amnrica being actually better than a lot of the countires they report on.
With respect to Israel, they just accept whatever the Palestinians tell them - They don’t even try to verify any of the details…
I’m sure they do the same thing here.
What’s really amazing is they won’t print anything about a vicious dictatorship unless they can independly verify it, but the same standards just don’t seem to apply to Israel, the USA or the UK…
It’s why I stopped donating to them, and why a lot of others have as well.
In Christ, Michael
Guar Fan:
Sometime, Amnesty will ask their questions in such a way that even the slightest misunderstanding becomes “Abuse”… Esp. since they emotionally can’t deal with Amnrica being actually better than a lot of the countires they report on.
With respect to Israel, they just accept whatever the Palestinians tell them - They don’t even try to verify any of the details…
I’m sure they do the same thing here.
What’s really amazing is they won’t print anything about a vicious dictatorship unless they can independly verify it, but the same standards just don’t seem to apply to Israel, the USA or the UK…
It’s why I stopped donating to them, and why a lot of others have as well.
In Christ, Michael
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catsrus
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Reads like more fodder for “the agenda”.
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soulspeak23
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What is with the “agenda” obsession? Do you honsetly believe that all the gay people in the world have secretly been plotting to bring down the Catholic Church. That we have some secret meetings each week and no one seems to notice millions of people gathering for our secret meetings. Come on, people. Did you ever stop to think if there is ANY truth to what they are saying? I personally know people who have been harrassed and even physically handles by police for just this reason. I’m not saying all cops are bad, or anything like that, because I also know more than a few exemplary cops. But this stuff does happen. It’s not just the supposed “agenda”.
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catsrus
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The “agenda” is a movement to “normalize” that which is not normal. Also not moral. If some of us appear to be “obsessed” with it, it is because it is insidiously and blatently being pushed into every aspect of our daily lives against our will. (movies, TV, schools, politics, ad naseum) To ignore it is condoneing by inaction and silence. Therefore, some of us WILL speak out and continue to do so while being labled “bigots” and “haters” by those who seek to promote it.
No, and that is an overstatement. “Gays” do not necessarily want to “bring down” The Catholic Church, but a loud few are trying desperately to force The Church to accept their “lifestyle” which is directly opposed to the moral teachings thereof. If you do not belive that this is happening, read and listen to more news and check out some of the threads in the "In The News" section of this board. The articles cited are always accompanied by reference, which is a forum rule.
We all know that there is no sin in having SSA, but there is great sin in acting upon it. The Church has spoken on this issue and yet the promoters of the “agenda” continue to beat at the doors as if all the noise and name calling will make one iota of difference or change any Doctrine.
Neither the gates of Hell nor nor any self obsessed immoral “agenda”, be it “gay” or other, will EVER prevail against The Church that Christ Himself established.
On a separate note, outside of The Church issue; while I’m sure there are individual officers of the law that have harrassed a person because of a perceived sexual orientation, I doubt that it’s any more than isolated incidence. A “gay” person, so treated, would scream predjudice so loudly that the entire weight of the ACLU and all their minions, not to mention the news media, would descend on that officer and his entire police department like locusts, destroying reputations enmass.
And, how would anyone, including a police officer, even know the sexual orientation of any person if it were not evidenced by action or speech? Is the “harrassed” person baiting the officer? For what reason? There is some food for thought.
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Traditional_Ang
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Soulspeak:
What do you think groups like Dignity and Catholics for a Free Choice are trying to do?
I don’t think they’re trying to “bring down the Catholic Church”. But don’t you think they just might be trying to get the Church to accept their “Lifestyle” and to stop saying that what they do is “Sinful” in the same way that they’re trying to get the rest of us to accept “Gay Marriage”?
You’re not going to get anything like dialogue if you misrepresent the position of people you seem to disagree with, such as catsrus - You’ll only get nasty arguments that will allow you to say, “Catholics are bigots!”
Is that what you really want to do? or, Would you rather understand what catsrus is saying and have him understand what you are trying to say?
I’d much rather see a real substantive discussion that a screaming match or a barroom fight.
In Christ, Michael
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pnewton
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I totally agree. Amnesty Intl. is off their rocker with this accusation. Police have neither the time, inclination of energy to target gays for abuse.
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Digger71
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“necessarily”??!!!
Well they dont need to try, the Church and its members do immanse damage all on their own to the Churches reputation.
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catsrus
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Correction. The Church and Her members are two separate entities.
The Church does no damage to anyone nor anything.
However, certain individuals who claim to be members of The Church have done harm to others.
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Libero
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Oh dont be fooled, there are mean cops out there, I have personally seen racist cops, but then again, that is what GMP notorious for.
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Libero
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Yes, I agree.
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Gnosis
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I don’t think that makes sense. If the abuse is institutionalized or widespread enough amongst its members than we can declare that it is the Church perpetrating this abuse. Its members are what compose the Church, they can not be seperate entities, in any complete sense, for without its members there would be no church, as there would not be a society if there were no people.
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catsrus
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"IF the abuse is institutionalized or widespread"
But it wasn’t and it wasn’t. Less than 2% of Priests were involved.
“we can declare that it is the Church perpetuating the abuse”
Because it is “declared”, does not make it so.
“for without it’s members there would be no Church”
True but look at the percentage again.
“there would be no society if there were no people”
This comment presupposes that ALL 1 billion plus members of The Church were involved in abuse. A false supposition.
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Walt_Oliver
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The topic of this thread is police abuse of gays and lesbians. Please open another thread if you wish to discuss the Church and her treatment of them. Thanks.
Walt
Walt
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estesbob
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Guar Fan:
The uniform crime statistics compiled by the FBI dont show what this article claims at all. Of course Amensty will argue that the statistics are flawed but the truth of the matter is Amensty has no basis, other than their opinion, to state what they are stating.
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geezerbob
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We had a bad county deputy here and one of the small towns surrounding Columbia was notorious for their mean cops. Of course, it all got cleaned up when they picked the wrong people to knock around. The last I heard, all four of them were in jail.
Now these were equal opportunity meanies. They beat on blacks, rednecks, and business and professional people, both male and female. By the time it hit the newspaper, though, it was discrimination and that’s where it stayed until the trials. It was only then that the non-discriminatory patterns of abuse were ever printed for public consumption although any reporter worth his pay could have concluded as much from the information that was available before the trial. But, I guess that wouldn’t have sold as many papers.
Now these were equal opportunity meanies. They beat on blacks, rednecks, and business and professional people, both male and female. By the time it hit the newspaper, though, it was discrimination and that’s where it stayed until the trials. It was only then that the non-discriminatory patterns of abuse were ever printed for public consumption although any reporter worth his pay could have concluded as much from the information that was available before the trial. But, I guess that wouldn’t have sold as many papers.
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Jeffrey
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Guar Fan said:
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