Poll: Do you think masturbation is a mortal sin?

[Sir_Knight]

You do realize, that as a Catholic, one is REQUIRED to accept Church teaching. One may not agree with it. One may not do it but one HAS TO acknowledge that it is correct. If one does not, then one can not truthfully consider themselves to be a “Catholic”.

 

[TedDC]

You do realize, that as a Catholic, one is REQUIRED to accept Church teaching. One may not agree with it. One may not do it but one HAS TO acknowledge that it is correct. If one does not, then one can not truthfully consider themselves to be a “Catholic”.

Then I guess I’m not a Catholic. I don’t believe God expects me to turn off my mind (which He gave me, after all) in order to love and serve Him.

 

[Elizabeth502]

That’s why I take care to be entirely up-front in stating my rejection of the Church’s teaching that masturbation destroys one’s relationship with God. My view is that the teaching, and the explanations of it that I’ve read, defies logic and reason. I’m not looking for anyone to tell me how I can do it and avoid being guilty of sin. I realize fully that the Church has declared the practice to be a sin; I simply do not believe that it’s immoral.

Actually the teaching & explanations are entirely logical, rational, and consistent with its own philosophical & moral premises, which are:

–that our bodies are gifts from God, not ours to possess, pervert, misdirect. (Also not to mutilate, neglect, etc.)
–that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. (Read St. Paul)
–that sexuality is a gift, intended to be used in partnership with a committed person of the opposite gender in a marital bond.
–that orgasm in particular is a very sacred gift, meant only to be experienced in the unitive relationship of marriage. It is sacred not only because it is the culmination & apex of self-emptying (literally & figuratively), but because it also contains physically the elements of procreation to which God has granted us a share, as partners with him.

…and that masturbation is a violation of all the above 4 points.

^ That’s the short version, not the weightier version, but it’s sufficient & complete enough to satisfy “logical” and “reasonable.”

 

[TedDC]

Actually the teaching & explanations are entirely logical, rational, and consistent with its own philosophical & moral premises, which are:

–that our bodies are gifts from God, not ours to possess, pervert, misdirect. (Also not to mutilate, neglect, etc.)
–that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. (Read St. Paul)
–that sexuality is a gift, intended to be used in partnership with a committed person of the opposite gender in a marital bond.
–that orgasm in particular is a very sacred gift, meant only to be experienced in the unitive relationship of marriage. It is sacred not only because it is the culmination & apex of self-emptying (literally & figuratively), but because it also contains physically the elements of procreation to which God has granted us a share, as partners with him.

…and that masturbation is a violation of all the above 4 points.

^ That’s the short version, not the weightier version, but it’s sufficient & complete enough to satisfy “logical” and “reasonable.”

Yes, everything you stated is logical and reasonable, and follows directly from the context of the Church’s interpretation of sexuality. But it has no objective foundation outside that interpretation. For example, there’s no evidence outside of Church teaching that the orgasm was intended solely to be experienced within marriage. To me, that teaching makes no more sense that would a statement that our sense of taste is intended solely to identify safe and nutritious foods, and must not be used for pleasure.

 

[bryan123459]

***the saints tell us that more people go to Hell over sexual sins than any other…

this sin is not like drinking pop rather than water… ***

I wouldn’t be so sure about that in light of what Jesus taught (Matthew 25) about sin that deprives one of heaven. What will Jesus have to say about a culture that spends hundreds of millions of dollars on “drinking pop” while children (Jesus himself) die every minute of every day from a lack of clean drinking water? Jesus gives his reasons in the Gospel for how he will separate “the sheep from the goats” and it has nothing to do with masturbation.

And those who ask, “How could God sit by and do nothing when these children are dying?” might be surprised when God says, “Funny thing, I was about to ask you the same question.”

 

[TedDC]

I wouldn’t be so sure about that in light of what Jesus taught (Matthew 25) about sin that deprives one of heaven. What will Jesus have to say about a culture that spends hundreds of millions of dollars on “drinking pop” while children (Jesus himself) die every minute of every day from a lack of clean drinking water? Jesus gives his reasons in the Gospel for how he will separate “the sheep from the goats” and it has nothing to do with masturbation.

And those who ask, “How could God sit by and do nothing when these children are dying?” might be surprised when God says, “Funny thing, I was about to ask you the same question.”

Excellent post!

 

[prettylarge]

Yes, everything you stated is logical and reasonable, and follows directly from the context of the Church’s interpretation of sexuality. But it has no objective foundation outside that interpretation. For example, there’s no evidence outside of Church teaching that the orgasm was intended solely to be experienced within marriage. To me, that teaching makes no more sense that would a statement that our sense of taste is intended solely to identify safe and nutritious foods, and must not be used for pleasure.

I totally agree with you on all points. I don’t think masturbation is bad either.

 

[MikiBee]

I accept it’s a sin because I don’t have a choice. But I don’t understand it. Like I said, every other sin, I can understand why it is a sin, and I even think some things are sins which the Church clearly does not (smoking for one). But logically and morally, I see no evil in masturbation UNLESS it becomes a means to objectify the opposite sex (fantasizing or porn), it becomes a compulsion, or interferes with married love (choosing it over your partner or knowing it hurts your partners feelings when you do it). But I do accept it. So, what kind of Catholic does that make me?

 

[Sir_Knight]

Then I guess I’m not a Catholic. I don’t believe God expects me to turn off my mind (which He gave me, after all) in order to love and serve Him.

I totally agree with you on all points. I don’t think masturbation is bad either.

" … and I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER you bind on earth WILL BE bound in heaven … "

 

[Sir_Knight]

Then I guess I’m not a Catholic. I don’t believe God expects me to turn off my mind (which He gave me, after all) in order to love and serve Him.

Let me put it another way … When I was growing up, there was a TV show called “The Little Rascals” featuring the “Our Gang” kids. Spanky started a “girls haters club” inviting Alfalfa, Buckwheat, Porky, etc., to join. But then, Alfalfa developed a crush on Darla and they started “dating”. He was still a member of the “girls haters club” and went to the meetings and called himself a “girl hater member” but in reality he wasn’t because he didn’t embrace the principles of the club.
In like fashion, in order to be a “Catholic”, one must embrace Catholic principles and doctrines. It’s an all or none proposition. There are many Christians who embrace many Catholic principles (Jesus is the Son of God born of a virgin and died on the cross for our sins and rose from the dead on the third day following His death, etc.) but they are not “Catholics” because they do not embrace ALL Catholic teaching (the Eucharistic is not the real body of Christ but just a symbol, etc.).

In order to be a “Catholic”, one must acknowledge that all official Church teachings are true and correct.

 

[TedDC]

Let me put it another way … When I was growing up, there was a TV show called “The Little Rascals” featuring the “Our Gang” kids. Spanky started a “girls haters club” inviting Alfalfa, Buckwheat, Porky, etc., to join. But then, Alfalfa developed a crush on Darla and they started “dating”. He was still a member of the “girls haters club” and went to the meetings and called himself a “girl hater member” but in reality he wasn’t because he didn’t embrace the principles of the club.
In like fashion, in order to be a “Catholic”, one must embrace Catholic principles and doctrines. It’s an all or none proposition. There are many Christians who embrace many Catholic principles (Jesus is the Son of God born of a virgin and died on the cross for our sins and rose from the dead on the third day following His death, etc.) but they are not “Catholics” because they do not embrace ALL Catholic teaching (the Eucharistic is not the real body of Christ but just a symbol, etc.).

In order to be a “Catholic”, one must acknowledge that all official Church teachings are true and correct.

Yes, that’s my understanding; I’m not arguing with you at all. As I said, I guess my views mean I’m not a Catholic. If that’s the case, so be it.

 

[MikiBee]

" … and I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER you bind on earth WILL BE bound in heaven … "

Did this statement only apply to the church, or does it apply to all men? If I didn’t forgive someone something, would they be bound in heaven as well?

 

[karoleck]

"— believe shows how Benetict views such situations(cfr Par.7)"all this should be lived out in communion and in fraternal understanding,avoiding judgements and mutual condemnations—"and "—in order to evaluate the morality of an act it is necessary to devote particular care to establishing the real intentions of the person concerned,in addition to objective shortcoming.Every case,then,will have to be pondered individually,taking account of the circumstances." end of quote–Judge not and you shall not be judged! I think that you could apply this quotation to the Poll.I ticked “sometimes” but in the end, it is up to each individuals’ fully informed conscience to make this call.My advise is don’t do it.! O most Pure Heart of Mary,make me pure in body and in mind and in heart.Amen, Quote.

I HAVE CHANGED MY MIND!-reason-
The question referes to MASTURBATION–it is noun,so it is an objective question (an object cannot masturbate) and since the object is deemed GRAVE MATTER ,it is always a mortal sin,in the context of this thread.-my conclusion is always to this question!
But if the question was about Masterbating,that can be then discussed as a subjective act-it refers to a person doing it and then the above qotation of Pope Benedict applies:–in order to evaluate the morallity of an act—"etc-my conclusion to this question is sometimes!
confused?It is like saying Apples are,red or green,juicy,white flesh and healthy-Objectively
but subjectively speaking my apple is bruised,a rusty flesh,rotten and has bugs in it ,unhealthy.
So the first statement about apples in a poll would-- always, to the second about apples --sometimes or maybe!
But talking about apples,good and evil has a setting in the Bible,about eating of the tree of Knowledge,Eve ate of the fruit and so the human race fell.Hence as a result of original sin,we are prone to evil ,hence our struggle with out of control sexual drives.The mortal sin of masterbation is a manifestation of this weakness.The only thing that can stop people masterbating is to overcome original sin, by our graces received at Baptism,strengthened
by the Sacraments that Jesus gave us that is Confession(Reconciliation)receiving the Eucharist,personal prayer,especially to The Pure Heart of Mary,sacrifice and the control of our senses,especially the unhealthy media or internet viewing.A person who has no religion or a “lapsed catholic” can with a strong natural mind and will,overcome this sin but we have many more helps in this regard.St.John of The Cross states that one of the outcomes of compromisation with sin (in this case masterbating) is that our minds are darkened and our wills are weakened-hence why some postings in this thread reflect this fact!
Oh most Pure Heart of Mary,make me pure in body and in mind and in heart.Amen.

 

[FiberZilla]

I would equate the act of masturbation itself with smoking marijuana from a morality standpoint. Those who endulge on an infrequent basis are harming nobody, certainly not themselves but still committing a sin. The problem lies in the fact that it can lead to other behaviors that are even worse.

The young boy who discovers this pleasure will certainly begin enhancing the experience with visual stimulation. In my day boys would look at the pretty models in underwear ads. These days hardcore, degrading and often violent pornography is available with the click of a mouse. Men rapidly get addicted… marriages get destroyed over that stuff.

The youngster who smokes marijuana once a month when out with his friends can be very easily influenced into snorting cocaine when a “friend of a friend” shows up at the next party.
Crack cocaine and chrystal meth, are not far behind.

I believe the church is right to stand against this behavior not because it is harmful or so awful by itself but because of what can easily follow behind it. But perhaps the best agruement against condoning masturbation is that self pleasure is not the reason why God gave us the orgasm.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Did this statement only apply to the church, or does it apply to all men? If I didn’t forgive someone something, would they be bound in heaven as well?

It was given to the unified Catholic Church. It would be an impossible promise to fulfill otherwise. Imagine one person in CA binding one thing while another person in GA loosening that exact same thing. That’s why official Catholic Church doctrine can never be changed.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Yes, that’s my understanding; I’m not arguing with you at all. As I said, I guess my views mean I’m not a Catholic. If that’s the case, so be it.

Personally speaking, that is something that I wouldn’t take lightly. And, if you recognize and admit it, why do you refer to yourself as a “Catholic” in your profile?

 

[Elizabeth502]

But perhaps the best agruement against condoning masturbation is that self pleasure is not the reason why God gave us the orgasm.

Well, you have at least one of the reasons I listed.

To Karoleck,
Yes, one of the compromises resulting from choosing, embracing Sin – which is what our first parents did – is that

our minds are darkened and our wills are weakened-hence why some postings in this thread reflect this fact!

…Hence why many postings reflect the kind of labyrinthian excuse-making characteristic of any of us sinners when in a state of mortal sin, or when incorrectly setting ourselves up as partaking of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. (Hmmm: Genesis, anyone?)IOW, being the self-appointed sources of morality itself.

MikiBee,
The statement about binding/loosing (forgiving/not forgiving) sins was addressed only to the apostles, not to mankind in general. It was a specific appointment of them.

 

[Fidelis_Unus]

I accept it’s a sin because I don’t have a choice. But I don’t understand it. Like I said, every other sin, I can understand why it is a sin, and I even think some things are sins which the Church clearly does not (smoking for one). But logically and morally, I see no evil in masturbation UNLESS it becomes a means to objectify the opposite sex (fantasizing or porn), it becomes a compulsion, or interferes with married love (choosing it over your partner or knowing it hurts your partners feelings when you do it). But I do accept it. So, what kind of Catholic does that make me?

It is one thing to defer to the Church and not fully understand the teaching and another thing to simply decide that the Church is wrong. I think, as long as you aren’t telling people something that the Church teaches isn’t really a sin, you are like many Catholics. We are all searching and can never fully understand God until we have the gift of beatific vision. I applaud your recognition of the importance of the Church in guiding God’s children and we are blessed to have you as a member of the faithful/

ANY act of self-love interferes with marital love. Humanae Vitae is a good place to start in understanding the marital relationship. There are other postings here if you search masturbation that have already covered some of the more practical aspects of why it is wrong.