Poltergiests

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dizzy_dave

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On Al Kresta’s show on the radio today they touched on this a little. What is a poultergiest? Is it:
  • a demon
  • a human soul (ghost)
  • or something else?
I never really understood what would be the Catholic definition of a poltergiest? Thanks.
 
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dizzy_dave:
On Al Kresta’s show on the radio today they touched on this a little. What is a poultergiest? Is it:
  • a demon
  • a human soul (ghost)
  • or something else?
I never really understood what would be the Catholic definition of a poltergiest? Thanks.
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By the way you have a wrong spelling. It should be poltergeist.
I don’t know what it is but I do know what it is not. It is not a soul. When we die our souls are immediately judged and are either condemned (go to Hell) or saved (go to Purgatory/Heaven). There are no souls left wandering with unfinished business.
 
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thistle:
By the way you have a wrong spelling. It should be poltergeist.
I don’t know what it is but I do know what it is not. It is not a soul. When we die our souls are immediately judged and are either condemned (go to Hell) or saved (go to Purgatory/Heaven). There are no souls left wandering with unfinished business.
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Thanks for the correction. They said on Al Kresta’s show that “ghosts” could be unbodied souls (only done so by the permission of God - however that is VERY rare). Al was interviewing Paul Thigpen, both of with are very good Catholics. 🙂
 
Pious said:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poltergeist
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Thanks but I’m looking more for a more Catholic Theologically correct answer. I only caught part of the above mentioned show so I’m not sure if they answered it, that’s why from a Catholic point of view what if any of the answer choices I gave in my original post would be most likely? (if any).
 
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dizzy_dave:
Thanks for the correction. They said on Al Kresta’s show that “ghosts” could be unbodied souls (only done so by the permission of God - however that is VERY rare). Al was interviewing Paul Thigpen, both of with are very good Catholics. 🙂
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What they probably meant was that God, for reasons unkown to us, sometimes allows us a glimpse of a soul in Purgatory but there is no contact or communication with these souls.

A poltergeist, if they existed, could not therefore be a soul because they are reputed to be mischievous spirits who make noises and throw things around. If they exist most likely they are from the Evil one!
 
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thistle:
What they probably meant was that God, for reasons unkown to us, sometimes allows us a glimpse of a soul in Purgatory but there is no contact or communication with these souls.

A poltergeist, if they existed, could not therefore be a soul because they are reputed to be mischievous spirits who make noises and throw things around. If they exist most likely they are from the Evil one!
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So probably a demon?
 
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dizzy_dave:
On Al Kresta’s show on the radio today they touched on this a little. What is a poultergiest? Is it:
  • a demon
  • a human soul (ghost)
  • or something else?
I never really understood what would be the Catholic definition of a poltergiest? Thanks.
Click to expand...
I heard a tape by Father Benedict Groeschel (“Private Revelation”) where he describes poltergeist activity as a yet unexplained phenomena. He said it was not a demon as it does not react to prayer or holy water. He also said it was not anyone’s spirit. He did say that it usually revolves around there being a young adolescent in the home. Not to say that something was deliberately going on, but that the presence of the young adolescent seems to be the cause.
 
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Dorothy:
I heard a tape by Father Benedict Groeschel (“Private Revelation”) where he describes poltergeist activity as a yet unexplained phenomena. He said it was not a demon as it does not react to prayer or holy water. He also said it was not anyone’s spirit. He did say that it usually revolves around there being a young adolescent in the home. Not to say that something was deliberately going on, but that the presence of the young adolescent seems to be the cause.
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Hmmmm, never heard that before, I wonder what it would be then? Interesting, but confusing. Thanks.
 
Dave,

<<Hmmmm, never heard that before, I wonder what it would be then? Interesting, but confusing. Thanks.>>

I have heard of it referred to as some kind of spiritual energy which is not yet able to be explained. (understandably!)
 
I had poltergeist activity around my when I was an older adolescent. It was mostly just one summer, and the occurances were annoying, but rather benign.

I have always read that it is “energy” stirred up by adolescent angst. Many people observed the occurances, but no one could explain them. I never got a sense of a spirit or ghost.

In my case, many of the things could have even been done by myself in my sleep or in a very distracted state, like a disociative state. so they occured, and I was honestly unaware of having anything to do with them. They all involved my stuff, or things at work that were associated with me. Other people’s things did not move or get “lost”.

I have never been able to make sense of the what or why of the occurances.

cheddar
 
What does the bible tells us about ghosts? * We know that ghosts do not have flesh and bones. (Luke 24:39)
  • We know that the dead can communicate with the living. (1 Sam 28; Sirach 46:20)
  • We know that at least in some context allowed by God, the dead can be conjured in some fashion. (1 Sam 28)
  • We know that it is possible for the dead to appear on the earth (Matt 72; 1 Sam 28)
  • We know that is may be possible for the dead to not only appear on the earth, but appear to people and talk with them (Luke 16:27-31; 1 Sam 28)
  • We know that it is possible for the living to bi-locate (Rev. 17:3; 21:10; 2 Cor 12:2)
  • We know that it is possible for spirits to communicate in dreams and the person to have a bodily reaction to the visitation (Job 415)
From this, we are able to conclude that there are seven types of ghosts …
  1. * GHOSTS OF THE FIRST KIND: The first kind Kreeft calls the “sad ones” or “wispy ones”. These Ghosts seem to be working out some unfinished business of some sort, or suffering some purgatorial purification.

    He says that these Ghosts would seem to be the ones who just barely made it into Purgatory, who feel little or no joy yet and who need to learn many painful lessons about their past lives on earth. God, in his compassion, may realize that to allow the person to get through Purgatory that it may be useful for them to learn some lessons on this earth.
    • GHOSTS OF THE SECOND KIND: A Second kind may be some of these purgatorial ghosts who might have been so material minded in their earthly life that they can’t detach themselves from these Material places or possessions. God may allow them to remain attached as they work out their need to “let go”.
    • GHOSTS OF THE THIRD KIND: A third type might be those who don’t yet realize their dead. Again, in God’s compassion, I can see why He would allow a spirit to linger for a short while so that they may realize their fate before leaving this world completely. In both the “second kind” and “third kind” God could, of course, force the person to let go of the material place or to come on through the “gate” and not linger. But a compassionate Father can also allow for a “little” tolerance to help the person to adjust.
    • GHOSTS OF A FOURTH KIND: A Fourth type are the malicious and deceptive spirits. These are the one who probably appear at seances and the like and are most likely from hell. And most likely are demons disguised as dead loved ones and not the human persons themselves.
    • GHOSTS OF A FIFTH KIND: A Fifth type are the bright, happy spirits of dead friends and family who appear unbidden at God’s will, not ours, with messages of hope and love. They seem to come from heaven. These type may come to a loved one to say goodbye or to comfort after a funeral for example. Or these type may come to a relative or friend in “great” need. There are very trustworthy empirical and psychological evidence for these phenomena.
    • GHOSTS OF A SIXTH KIND: A sixth type might be a form of time/space instant replay. We know from Einstein’s work and other scientists that it may indeed be possible for events of the past to be in the present in a sort of time/space warp. This gets into some very complicated notions, but the idea is that some “ghosts” are not ghosts at all but are an instant replay of a past event.
    In such cases what one sees is the ghost performing a certain scene repetively. For example, a ghost of this type may go from the top of the stairs to the bottom and then disappear. This may happen over and over again. It never changes. The Ghost never interacts with anyone, and we cannot interact with it. It never changes facial expression nor does it ever acknowledge anything around it. Thus phenomenon is exactly like an instant reply on T.V. As some sort of time/space loop or instant replay, this Ghost is NOT a demon, or soul, or spirit. It is a phemomenon that given the right circumstances can probably be explained by physics. This type is NOT supernatural.
    • GHOSTS OF THE SEVENTH KIND: Some “apparent” ghostly apparitions or effects may be the bi-location of the living…the Astral projections of living people. This can be postulated from scriptural evidence (Rev. 17:3; 21:10; and 2 Cor 12:2), and from verified reports of bi-location of people like Padre Pio.
 
An extract from a response to “Do Ghosts Exist?” Michelle Arnold of Ask An Apologist replied:
You are also correct that there are not “lost souls,” in the sense that there are not souls that are caught between death and eternity unable to “cross over” to “the other side.” After death, a soul is judged and is either saved or damned. A damned soul is in hell; a saved soul is either in heaven or in purgatory.

That said, it may be that purgatory might in some way involve the life one lived here on earth. It is not incompatible with a belief in purgatory to believe that our purgation might include “revisiting” places that were significant during our earthly lives. It may be that occasionally God allows people to see such souls in order to inspire prayers for them or in some way to teach a lesson to the people who see them.

In any case, what you can tell your kids is this: Although Church teaching does not rule out the possibility of ghosts, and although it also does not rule out the possibility that God might allow us to see ghosts on occasion, the Church does forbid us from attempting to initiate occult contact with departed souls.
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