Poorly kept sacramental records - is this the norm?

[babochka]

I’ve always heard that the Church is well known for keeping excellent records, but that has not been my experience.

I recently requested my husband’s certificate from the military ordinariate. It has no record of his confirmation or our marriage, nor his First Communion (which is not required to be recorded, but often is).

One of my children was baptized in a Latin-rite parish, and a short time later christmated (confirmed) in our Byzantine parish. The priest sent the information for her Chrismation to the parish of baptism, but was informed that no record could be found. The next week, I walked into the parish myself and obtained a copy of her baptismal certificate. To date, her Confirmation has not been recorded in the baptismal record.

My mom was adult convert to the faith in the 1960s. She has never received a baptismal certificate and no record can be found at the parish in which she was baptized. In spite of this, there was apparently no problem when she and my dad got married. The parish in which they were married just wrote in that she was baptized at that parish, and chose an apparently random date. This baptism, of course, is not found in the baptismal register of that parish.

I know of somebody who was, according to the baptismal register, baptized before she was born.

Is this a modern phenomenon, or perhaps an American phenomenon? Or have I just been unlucky?

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Overall I think you’ve been unlucky, but it’s definitely true that mistakes happen. It was probably a lot easier when people didn’t move around so much. Now each sacrament may take place in a different parish and every one of them a) has to be meticulous about contacting the parish of baptism and b) the parish of baptism has to be meticulous about recording the additional sacraments. That leaves room for error.

I remember a few years ago when our parish secretary became aware that she hadn’t been notifying baptismal parishes about adult confirmations in our parish. She and I spent a fair amount of time going back through our records and comparing names to determine everyone who had been confirmed so she could follow through. It just somehow slipped through the cracks, But multiply that by thousands of parishes and you’ve got a problem.

 

[Bonnie]

I think you’ve been unlucky, but there is more disorganization than people might think. So much depends on the organizational & record keeping skills of individual priests. My husband works part-time at a mission parish on the reservation. The records are a mess - both sacramental & cemetery records.

An aunt lives on another reservation on the other side of the state. When their long-time priest got ill & had to retire, they found out he hadn’t kept records of who was buried where for years. I don’t know about the sacramental records.

 

[Phemie]

I think you’ve been unlucky, but I worked in a parish as secretary for 12 years and I saw some things that made me shake my head.

The Baptism before birth, while not common, is understandable when you realize that registers are not all formatted the same. It’s easy to transpose those dates if you’re used to one format and a new to you register is in another. It’s happened to me once or twice though I always caught it as I was doing it. Unless it could easily be corrected I’d put a line through the entry, initial it and start again.

The pastor I started working with suffered with Alzheimer’s for a few years before they made him retire. In the Mission he went to on a regular basis they found scraps of paper all over the place with names and dates of Baptism. He hadn’t entered anything in the records. In our parish he’d failed to enter 4 Baptisms that all took place the same day. It was only by interviewing one mom who remembered all the other families that we were able to fill in those blanks.

I must say that I never had a problem getting certificates from the Canadian Military Ordinariate.

Because we were a military family, our children received their sacraments of initiation all over Canada and not always in military parishes although we lived on Base. We sometimes attended language based personal parishes and that’s where they received their sacraments for the most part. I’m going to request their Certificates of Baptism to see if the other sacraments were recorded.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I’ve always heard that the Church is well known for keeping excellent records, but that has not been my experience.

I recently requested my husband’s certificate from the military ordinariate. It has no record of his confirmation or our marriage, nor his First Communion (which is not required to be recorded, but often is).

One of my children was baptized in a Latin-rite parish, and a short time later christmated (confirmed) in our Byzantine parish. The priest sent the information for her Chrismation to the parish of baptism, but was informed that no record could be found. The next week, I walked into the parish myself and obtained a copy of her baptismal certificate. To date, her Confirmation has not been recorded in the baptismal record.

My mom was adult convert to the faith in the 1960s. She has never received a baptismal certificate and no record can be found at the parish in which she was baptized. In spite of this, there was apparently no problem when she and my dad got married. The parish in which they were married just wrote in that she was baptized at that parish, and chose an apparently random date. This baptism, of course, is not found in the baptismal register of that parish.

I know of somebody who was, according to the baptismal register, baptized before she was born.

Is this a modern phenomenon, or perhaps an American phenomenon? Or have I just been unlucky?

To an extent, I agree with those who say you have been unlucky

The importance was certainly stressed when I was studying for the priesthood. The diocese routinely inspects and archives the records to provide some additional quality control, too.

I think most are very conscientious. Historically, the system we have has worked remarkably well…although perhaps it is better suited to a simpler and earlier age.

Several commenters do make valid points. Especially in countries where the population is more mobile, one is not simply going back and annotating the local baptismal register with confirmation and either marriage, ordination or religious profession that also occurred locally…and indeed in a parish the family has been a part of for generations.

There are ever increasing requests coming to parishes for baptismal certificates with notations in view of sacraments being conferred elsewhere – and notification of each then has to be sent back to the baptismal parish for notation in the original parish’s sacramental register.

Sadly some priests are not as attentive as they should be. More sadly, some are in a condition, due to age or illness, that impedes them as others have related. And then, the competence and dedication of support staff also enters into it the equation, too, as well as their workload.

If you have staff who are part-time and have many obligations, “Oh, I am so busy, I’ll get to it another day” can be an excuse easily at hand when it comes either to adding a received notification to one’s own register or notifying a baptismal parish that a sacrament was conferred after it was celebrated – and in either case, the notification is forgotten or lost.

I remember one parish where there were almost no records about burials in the local cemetery. I was told they hadn’t been needed because one gentleman, who was responsible for the maintenance of the cemetery, had it all in his memory. Unfortunately, he died a year and a half before I was assigned there.

The situation of your mother, however, is intolerable. One should not invent data to put into the sacramental register, as what you describe happened at the time of her marriage. There is/has been a process to authenticate and document that a sacrament was conferred even through a record of it does not survive. That process should be used in order to create a replacement record that supplies and memorializes the information that can be known.

 

[mcmitton]

In this day and age, I wonder why the sacramental event, after being entered in to the parish records, isn’t sent electronically to the diocese?

 

[Gorgias]

In this day and age, I wonder why the sacramental event, after being entered in to the parish records, isn’t sent electronically to the diocese?

Because it wouldn’t be a valid record of the sacrament. Canonically, the only valid record of the reception of sacraments is found in a sacramental register, kept at the parish. So, let’s suppose that the worst happens: a baby is baptized, the info is sent to the diocese, and years later, it’s found that it was never entered into the sacramental register. (It’s kind of a stretch as an example, though, don’t you think? That it wouldn’t be entered where it must be entered, but it was emailed to the diocese? Anyway…)

So, they find out that there’s no record of it at the parish. Still, they wouldn’t be able to use the diocesan record… since the process of authentication doesn’t include “referring back to the diocesan electronic data”. So, they’d still have to go back and find documentation, or maybe sign affidavits, in order to get the sacrament recorded properly – in the parish register.

 

[Phemie]

Because it wouldn’t be a valid record of the sacrament. Canonically, the only valid record of the reception of sacraments is found in a sacramental register, kept at the parish. So, let’s suppose that the worst happens: a baby is baptized, the info is sent to the diocese, and years later, it’s found that it was never entered into the sacramental register. (It’s kind of a stretch as an example, though, don’t you think? That it wouldn’t be entered where it must be entered, but it was emailed to the diocese? Anyway…)

So, they find out that there’s no record of it at the parish. Still, they wouldn’t be able to use the diocesan record… since the process of authentication doesn’t include “referring back to the diocesan electronic data”. So, they’d still have to go back and find documentation, or maybe sign affidavits, in order to get the sacrament recorded properly – in the parish register.

We forward photocopies of the registers to the Diocese every year to be kept in the diocesan archives. For a couple of parishes all we have are photocopies of an itinerant priest’s personal register from the 1920s to the late 1940s. He sailed to the different communities each summer, celebrating many marriages and baptisms in a single day and recording who had died since his last visit. He did this until ~1948 when the OMI sent a missionary to minister to those communities.

 

[mcmitton]

Oh, I do understand the valid and official record is within the parish register. I was thinking more about the loss of the records by fire, flood, tornado… Given the high mobility of families today, I thought it would be a good point of searching by person name for the where/when of what parish, known or unknown, wherein the seeker received the sacrament.

 

[Gorgias]

We forward photocopies of the registers to the Diocese every year to be kept in the diocesan archives. For a couple of parishes all we have are photocopies of an itinerant priest’s personal register from the 1920s to the late 1940s. He sailed to the different communities each summer, celebrating many marriages and baptisms in a single day and recording who had died since his last visit. He did this until ~1948 when the OMI sent a missionary to minister to those communities.

That’s a different issue, though, right? That’s archiving, not possession of sacramental registers.

Here, parishes send their archived registers to the diocesan archives for safekeeping (I’m not certain how old records have to be before they’re archived; I don’t think there’s a particular standard. Maybe when the book is filled or the parish is closed?)

 

[Phemie]

That’s a different issue, though, right? That’s archiving, not possession of sacramental registers.

Here, parishes send their archived registers to the diocesan archives for safekeeping (I’m not certain how old records have to be before they’re archived; I don’t think there’s a particular standard. Maybe when the book is filled or the parish is closed?)

I would think it’s when a parish closes, not before. Those registers, even if full, are necessary to provide sacramental records as necessary. In our small parish, which was erected only in 1958, there are already 4 full combined registers which we need on a regular basis. We now use separate registers so that that way we don’t have to waste paper (combined registers being considered “full” when only one section is filled).

For example, there is a military base that is part of our town. Two Catholic military parishes were in existence from about the late 40s. For an extended period neither had a chaplain, they were ministered to by the local civilian Pastor who also maintained the registers. Eventually, it became too much to keep both open and in the late 70s one closed. In the 80s the remaining one got a Catholic Padre. He looked after the registers until 1997 when the parish was permanently closed and the registers forwarded to Ottawa to the Military Ordinariate archives. Since 1997, Catholic military personnel and their families attend and receive pastoral care from the local parish but requests for certificates for sacraments conferred in the Base Chapels have to be forwarded to the Military Ordinariate.

 

[CJsmommy]

Could it be that at least in one case the record is there but misspelled?
It took 3 tries to get my daughter’s baptismal certificate right. First there was some confusion over her name as her middle name is more often used for boys, so her first name was put in as the masculine version rather than the feminine. (Her godmother caught it before we saw it.) Then we get it mailed to us, and my middle name was completely butchered, which is ironic as it is a version of the Holy Mother’s name.

 

[Matthew125]

Could it be that at least in one case the record is there but misspelled?

This happened to me. My last name has an English variant spelling of a more traditional Irish name. I requested records from the parish where I grew up. They sent a copy of my Baptismal Certificate which noted my First Communion, but said they couldn’t find any record of my Confirmation.

So I called the parish back. “Are you sure you were Confirmed here?” was the first thing they asked. Uh, yeah. So after a little back and forth they were able to find the record based on some other information I was able to provide. It was recorded using the Irish spelling of my name. A minor thing really, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this sort of thing happens from time to time.

Matt

 

[Phemie]

Could it be that at least in one case the record is there but misspelled?
It took 3 tries to get my daughter’s baptismal certificate right. First there was some confusion over her name as her middle name is more often used for boys, so her first name was put in as the masculine version rather than the feminine. (Her godmother caught it before we saw it.) Then we get it mailed to us, and my middle name was completely butchered, which is ironic as it is a version of the Holy Mother’s name.

It’s possible. I saw it more than once in the registers I dealt with.

A few years ago I went looking for my grandfather’s certificate of Baptism for my aunts who, for some reason known only to them, care very much about getting this. I was hoping to make them happy as they were 82 & 90.

I approached the parish where he was born, they looked through the register (wearing white cotton gloves) and said “No, he isn’t there.” On Ancestry.com I later found that he is in fact in their register, as are his 3 brothers and the marriage of their parents. Photocopies of said register are online. It’s interesting what you can find out from registers that family would never acknowledge.