Pope B16 breaks silence: speaks of ‘deep crisis’ facing Church post-Vatican II

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Is he saying here that since Vatican II, there has been a change in teaching with respect to the Dogma that there is no salvation outside the Church? I thought that the teachings were not supposed to change?
 
Tomdstone said:
Is he saying here that since Vatican II, there has been a change in teaching with respect to the Dogma that there is no salvation outside the Church? I thought that the teachings were not supposed to change?
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See Lumen Gentium (Dogmatic Constitution of the Church, one of the documents of VII), Section 16:
  1. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, “Preach the Gospel to every creature”,(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.
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vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html .
 
A dogmatic teaching can not change, it can ‘‘evolve’’ if you will ~ meaning, it can be further explained.

“Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church…” ~ Lumen Gentium.

Does that mean they are saved outside the Church? No. Because there is no slavation outside the Church. So,they are not saved throug some false deity, or some other religion, but through The Christ’s Church, to which by God’s grace are mystically apart of (in an extraordinary form).

I hope this makes sense.

Then there’s a question about someone who is a protestant lets say and is spending hours and hours looking what the Church teaches, so that he could better debate Catholics and because of his disposition, he fails to see the truth that all the teachings of the Church are. Can the passage from the Lumen Gentium document apply to this person or not?
 
Will the Vatican II documents ever get furhter explanation? I think it would not hurt.
 
multitude said:
Coming from him? That says a lot.
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Indeed it does. Which is why I’m somewhat perplexed he has waited until now to express these thoughts. Seems they would have been better expressed when he was Pope and had the power to help guide the church out of this crisis he sees.

Unless of course he thought his successor would guide the church out and/or this is something he feels has come about enough to warrant commenting on it in the time since he left papal office.
 
TwoNames #5
Does that mean they are saved outside the Church? No. Because there is no slavation outside the Church. So,they are not saved throug some false deity, or some other religion, but through The Christ’s Church, to which by God’s grace are mystically apart of (in an extraordinary form).
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Right, and this is the reality:
*Extra ecclesiam, nulla salus *(literally, “outside the Church, there is no salvation”). Some people have wished to understand this saying in the most literal sense: that is, that the person who is not formally a practicing Catholic cannot be saved. The Church has condemned such an interpretation (cf. Denzinger-Schönmetzer, 3870-3873).

This is not to say that the maxim is false. Properly understood, it is quite true. The Latin word extra can mean either “without” or “outside.” The correct interpretation and sense of the maxim is that we cannot be saved without the Church. **It is through the Church, which carries on and makes present the salvific work of Jesus Christ in the world, that all who are saved reach heaven (even if it is perhaps only there that they realize it). **Those who, through no fault of their own, have never known Christ or his Church can still be saved. But their salvation, too, is the effect of Jesus working through his Church. In a positive sense, this theological principle “means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body” (CCC 846). [My emphasis]
Encyclopedia of Catholic Doctrine, OSV].

Vatican II, Lumen Gentium:
16. “Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life.”
 
Yes, very well written and 100% true. I once heard someone say “only Catholics will be in heaven”, then he explained that he did not say “only Catholics go to heaven”. But when a non Catholic gets there, he/she will be Catholic.
 
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