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WanderAimlessly
Guest
This should rile the death crowd:
PF
Pope Benedict: God Sees Unborn Children as "Full and Complete" Humans
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Traditional_Ang
Guest
WanderAimlessly:This should rile the death crowdF
Let’s see if the American Bishops take His Holiness up on this Challenge…
I’d like to see them, just once, treat Abortion as the great evil it is instead of saying that they can’t deny communion to politicians who support “A Woman’s Right to Choose” (to murder her baby) because some politicians still support the Death Penalty for convicted Murderers.
There’s something about equating the slaughter of Innocent children with the killing of convicted murderers that just sounds wrong. And, Yet, that’s just what the American Bishops seem to do every time this comes up.
This is completely contrary to the teaching of the Catechism on this matter:
Capital Punishment
*2266 - The State’s effort to contain the spread of behaviors injurious to human rights and the fundamental rules of civil coexistence corresponds to the requirement of watching over the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime. the primary scope of the penalty is to redress the disorder caused by the offense. When his punishment is voluntarily accepted by the offender, it takes on the value of expiation. Moreover, punishment, in addition to preserving public order and the safety of persons, has a medicinal scope: as far as possible it should contribute to the correction of the offender.67
2267 - The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor.
"If, instead, bloodless means are sufficient to defend against the aggressor and to protect the safety of persons, public authority should limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
"Today, in fact, given the means at the State’s disposal to effectively repress crime by rendering inoffensive the one who has committed it, without depriving him definitively of the possibility of redeeming himself, cases of absolute necessity for suppression of the offender ‘today … are very rare, if not practically non-existent.’[John Paul II, Evangelium vitae 56.]*
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7Z.HTM
Whereas, the Church’s teaching on Abortion:
Abortion
*2270 - Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception.
From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.71
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.72
My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.73
2271 - Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion.
This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable.
Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:
You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.74
God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves.
Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.75
2272 - Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense.
The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life.
"A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"76 "by the very commission of the offense,"77 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.78
…
2273 - …
Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being’s right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."79*
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7Z.HTM
2319
2321
2322
2323
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P82.HTM
The two are treated differently in the Catechism, in spite of the fact that Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI were both opposed to Capitol Punishment for Convicted Murderers.
The American Bishops need to stop using the excuse and to stop equating the two acts. As long as they continue doing this, they continue proving their unfitness as shepherds.
In this case, simple submision to His Holiness on this issue will solve their problem.
In Christ, Michael
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bones_IV
Guest
Traditional Ang:
I hope that the bishops get in the words of Father Corapi, “a kick in the butt”.
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WanderAimlessly
Guest
I will supply the steel toed boots.
Seriously, there are some Bishops in line, but more need to be brought in line or be replaced. I do not know if replacement is possible in Canon Law though.
PF
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mdzialo1
Guest
If it’s not a baby, then you’re not pregnant.
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bones_IV
Guest
I think that in the election of Bishops there needs to be (name removed by moderator)ut from not just priests, but laity and parishioners. They see things that priests do not see.I will supply the steel toed boots.
Seriously, there are some Bishops in line, but more need to be brought in line or be replaced. I do not know if replacement is possible in Canon Law though.
PF
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WanderAimlessly
Guest
I see a danger in that. What you will hear from the most are the fringe like VOTF and CTA since they seem to scream the most.
PF
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Shoshana
Guest
Code:
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Traditional_Ang
Guest
PF:I will supply the steel toed boots.
Seriously, there are some Bishops in line, but more need to be brought in line or be replaced. I do not know if replacement is possible in Canon Law though.
PF
There are provisions in Canon Law where the Pope can replace recalcitrant Bishops. Pope John Paul II took to using a section that allowed him to replace the Bishop while allowing the Bishop to keep his title, his dignity and NOTHING else!
But with my personal favorite, it seems he’s decided to wait until it’s time for him to retire. In a way, that’s a real shame, because this Archdiocese is being led by a man who is very much compromised on the issue of Abortion, as demonstrated by the behavior of the Cathedral Guards towards the Catholic Crusaders:
Cardinal Mahoney supports event honoring a pro-abortion Catholic Mayor
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=63153
Catholic Students Threatened With Arrest At Catholic Cathedral In Los Angeles
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=63188
He can’t say that nobody warned him - My friends at the LA Catholic Worker tirelessly demonstrated and wrote letters to him while he was getting bids on, designing and building the Cathedral in Downtown LA. They really tried to tell him to build within the means of the Archdiocese and not to take the money from the Pro-Abortion Politicians and Businesspeople who paid much of the expense of building the Cathedral.
Since then, he’s been almost dead silent on the issue of Abortion and has been among those who used the Death Penalty as a reason to say why they couldn’t deny the eucharist to pro-Abortion politicians.
5 years is a long time to wait. I’m beginning to pray that His Holiness sees the wisdom of not making the people of this archdiocese wait.
In Christ, Michael
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Traditional_Ang
Guest
PF:
That’s how St. Ambrose and St. Augustine were elected…
I seem to recall that a certain Roman official was horrified to hear a young child scream, “Ambrose for Bishop!”
A big, burly man beat the Catechumen (he hadn’t even been baprized yet) to the door, as the crowd began to thunder, “Ambrose for bishop!”
The Roman Council replied that he hadn’t even been baptrized, let alone ordained as a Priest. A Bishop from another town asked for the water and asked if he would accept baptism…
Ambrose was no sooner Baptized then he was placed kneeling before the Bishop to be confirmed and then ordained as a Deacon and then as a Priest of the Holy Catholic Church.
Canon Law required that he be 24 hours a priest before becoming a Bishop…
St. Ambrose is a Doctor and Bishop of the Church whose Feast Day is April 4th.
He was instrumental in the conversion and theological formation of Str. Augustine of Hippo, Great Doctor and Dishop of the Church, who was also drafted to be a Bishop against his will.
I wouldn’t knock having the laity pick the bishops - they picked a bunch of winners in the early Church.
Who would you rather have Bishop Ambrose, or Bishop Mahony?
I know who I’d take…
In Christ, Michael
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