Pope Francis and negativity

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

I can’t abide the theory that Vatican II caused the modern crisis when truthfully it was the modern crisis that caused Vatican II if Catholics really cared to learn about the build up to the Council.

Vatican II itself wasn’t to blame for what happened post-vat II. But it can’t be denied that a large number of unscrupulous priests and theologians took liberties with the teachings of Vat II and this led to a lot of problems.

That will always happen in this Church filled with flawed people. Unscrupulous priests and theologians have been ‘taking liberties’ throughout Church history. ie. some of the worst atrocities of the Crusaders. The exploitation of indulgences and other things that led to Luther splitting the Church. This doesn’t mean that the Councils and doctrines being exploited were wrong.

The problem is that this document also has been taken by some to mean that previous Church teaching doesn’t apply.

It’s hardly the case that many couples were excluded because they were divorced and remarried. In fact, this teaching was hardly ever enforced.

The bottom line is, we either believe that marriage is indissoluble or we don’t. If we do, then really there’s little room for making allowances other than if an annulment is obtained.

I do agree with Pope Francis when he said that many couples married in the Church today are probably invalidly married as they really have no idea what’s involved in sacramental marriage.

The real problem isn’t so much offering mercy to those in adulterous relationships, but teaching those who come to get married in the Catholic Church and sometimes challenging them to think about why they are…is it for a “nice venue” or to partake in the sacrament of marriage.

What AL is affirming in its footnote regarding divorced/remarrieds, is the legitimacy of the internal forum. That has been used within the Church for a long time but rightly a private space between Priest, couple and the Holy Spirit. It accepts what many Priests have believed about this particular situation, that a couple unable to gain an official annulment, can demonstrate through the growth of a holy and faithful family life over time, that their 2nd marriage is blessed in the eyes of God. And by default showing and earlier marriage did not have that aspect. Now if unscrupulous Priest and theologians exploit that, it doesn’t suggest that the teaching is wrong.

 

[AdamP88]

This doesn’t mean that the Councils and doctrines being exploited were wrong.

I never said they were wrong. The people who do say that are essentially schismatics. Not all traditional-minded Catholics are SSPX.

It accepts what many Priests have believed about this particular situation, that a couple unable to gain an official annulment, can demonstrate through the growth of a holy and faithful family life over time, that their 2nd marriage is blessed in the eyes of God.

Unfortunately what you just said is the reason that the wording of it is flawed, or at least misrepresented by some theologians.

A second marriage outside the Church can not possibly be “blessed by God” because it is basically adultery.
That is basically just promotion of living in a sinful situation.

And by default showing and earlier marriage did not have that aspect.

So if I decide that my previous marriage is invalid, it makes it so. Pretty bad theology if you ask me.

The simple fact is that we still should read this statement in light of the previous teaching and tradition of the Church.

What you just said would be a massive departure from previous thinking.