Pope Francis says traditional Latin Mass was being used in an ideological way

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The belief that it’s not necessary to understand each and every word in Mass is absurd. Every word in Mass is important just as every part of the Mass is important, and that includes the readings and homily, not to mention any prayers and blessings that change.
Then the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church was absurd from the time that widespread understanding of liturgical Latin evaporated, up until 1965. That’s over a millennium for the Holy Ghost to be asleep at the wheel.
 
I don’t see any reason when discussing the TLM topic to bring the one of sex abuse and zero tolerence policy. Sexual abuse exists and had existed before and after Vatican II with or without OF OR EF of the missal. Two differents topics, apples and oranges.

There is a traditionalist minority who has her specific culture and way of worship and way of living. Some are traditionalists as a family heritage from always, and others are revert of come from ordinary form parishes and want a more engaged form of Catholicism. They are not present in some countries than in others.
The fact they may be only 1% of Catholics is not an argument to restrict their liberty of worship in their prefered form. If they are a small minority, they should not be a problem and no treat to the general Church.

For the latin: the papers given at mass usually give the latin and the vernacular tradition, as the missals. The reading and the homily are given in the vernacular language.
It’s true that we don’t have a lot of latiners these days, the fault to the schools and students choices.

The latin is the official language of the Church, and was the language spoken at the Vatican II council.

On the contrary, the fact vocations folorished is a decicive arguments. the Church will not survive without priests. The curbs are worrying. I don’t see at all, from experience, any effective pastoral of vocations, apart prayers. In my parish, there is no altar boys, nor even children who go regularly at mass. There are no large families, who are the traditional breeding grounds for vocations.

If we are in a dying Church, the debate over TLM or Vatican II is already a fight overwelmed and pointless.
 
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It is sad for traditionalists who really believe that TC is just about being cruel and mean and restricting the TLM for no good reason. They feel persecuted.

Their persecutors are not the Magisterium but the fundamentalists among them that are ideologically opposed to Vatican II. That’s what Pope Francis meant by the TLM being used in an ideological way.

Some of these fundamentalists outright reject the validity of Vatican II and some are more deceptive paying lip service to it’s validity while promoting principles and doctrines that impede its implementation.

All of the post Vatican II Popes acknowledge the Council as a movement of the Holy Spirit. To deny the Council is to deny the Holy Spirit. That’s a precarious fence to be sitting on.

In 1985 early in Pope StJPII’s pontificate he called an Extraordinary Synod regarding Vatican II. He said as much in his closing speech…

2. Attainment of the Synod’s aim

The end for which this Synod was convoked was the celebration, verification and promotion of Vatican Council II. With grateful hearts, we feel that we have truly obtained this fruit, with God’s assistance. Unanimously we have celebrated the Second Vatican Council as a grace of God and a gift of the Holy Spirit, from which have come forth many spiritual fruits for the universal Church and the particular Churches, as well as for the men of our time. Unanimously and joyfully we also verify that the Council is a legitimate and valid expression and interpretation of the deposit of faith as it is found in Sacred Scripture and in the living tradition of the Church. Therefore we are determined to progress further along the path indicated to us by the Council. There has been full consensus among us regarding the need to further promote the knowledge and application of the Council, both in its letter and in its spirit. In this way new progress will be achieved in the reception of the Council, that is, in its spiritual interiorization and practical application.
 
The counterargument is that because the words are not important, then any language would do. The sample applies to the Bible and even Catechism.
 
Indeed, even the base language of the OF is Latin.

The problem is that most Catholics don’t understand Latin, which is why not only the Mass but Scriptures, the Homily, Catechism, and Church documents are translated.

In which case, work on Catholic schools first and education. The problem is that there aren’t enough resources even for basic education.

Finally, it may be seen as a dying Church but its numbers are still rising, and, if any, they don’t involve the EF but reforms brought about by Vatican II:

 
Only a minority of Catholics are White Westerners, nowadays most believers live in places like South America and Africa. Many of them don’t feel any link to Latin, which is strongly connected to the European heritage. It is also true that Latin fell out of favour in education in European countries.

However, Latin is a big part of Catholic history. Most classics of Catholic philosophy are in Latin. It’s unfair that Pope Francis associates Latin mass only with right-wing militancy.

Noone bashes Muslims for sticking to Arabic, or Hindu cults for exalting Sanskrit.
 
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It’s unfair that Pope Francis associates Latin mass only with right-wing militancy.
It’s unfortunate the Pope Francis has to be ‘bad cop’ on this matter but the fact is that while not all TLM members are right wing militants… all Catholic right wing militants are TLM ideologues. It is they who have done you guys wrong.
 
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No, it wasn’t absurd. Rather, more people no longer understood Latin. That’s why the Mass was translated into languages that they can understand, and the same took place with the Bible, Catechism, and so far.
 
It’s not so much a link to Latin but the reality that even most white Westerners don’t understand Latin.

But since Latin is part of the Catholic Church, it remains the base language, which is why even the original language of the OF is Latin.

http://www.latinliturgy.com/OrdinaryFormD20.pdf

The problem is that most Catholics don’t speak Latin, so they use a language that they understand for the Mass, the Bible, Catechism, etc.

Finally, for other religions, my understanding is that they go out of their way to learn Arabic, etc. Catholics don’t do similar with Latin.
 
No, it wasn’t absurd. Rather, more people no longer understood Latin. That’s why the Mass was translated into languages that they can understand, and the same took place with the Bible, Catechism, and so far.
I was referring to the period from the time that ecclesiastical Latin and the vulgar Romance tongues diverged (proto-Italian, -French, -Spanish, and so on) — and of course the Germanic peoples didn’t speak Latin at all, at least not the commoners and the marginally educated — to 1965, when translation of large portions of the Mass was introduced throughout the entire Roman Rite. That’s about a millennium and a half, give or take. Using the reasoning that “all faithful must understand each and every word of the Mass”, the Church was very, very late putting that reasoning into practice. Do you suggest that the Roman Rite faithful limped along, unjustly deprived of the vernacular they needed in the Mass, for that long?
 
Do you suggest that the Roman Rite faithful limped along, unjustly deprived of the vernacular they needed in the Mass, for that long?
The Latin served a purpose while the educated classes had the reigns in society. When that dynamic began to change the vernacular was a much more sensible route. Those thinking that they can force society back into that box are useless evangelisers. It’s not that important.
 
So the pontiff should be more motivated to make Catholics learn Latin. Some Hindus speak Sanskrit at home, so why can’t we imagine a group of Catholics starting using Latin?
 
From what I read, they used Latin because many didn’t understand Greek, Syrian-Greek, and others which were used for some liturgies, but they understood Latin.

The Church probably thought that many still understood Latin even as missionaries translated the Mass into vernacular languages as part of evangelization. By the nineteenth century, more requested for translations of not just the Mass but even the Bible, and that was eventually fulfilled.
 
I think the problem for the Church worldwide is that it lacks resources just for teaching vernacular languages and basic education in Catholic schools.
 
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