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Unbound68
Guest
Anyone here believe she existed? Can you back up your answer for or against with evidence?
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adamhovey1988
Guest
Well, she didn’t, so there’s that. Pope Joan - Jimmy Akin’s Mysterious World
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Unbound68
Guest
Not really interested in watching a YouTube video. Can you summarize the evidence for your position?
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7_Sorrows
Guest
Actually, it is not a you tube video, it is a podcast. Very informative. I would recommend listening to it.Not really interested in watching a YouTube video. Can you summarize the evidence for your position?
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puer.dei
Guest
Why just repeat what Jimmy has already laid out in the podcast?Not really interested in watching a YouTube video. Can you summarize the evidence for your position?
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puer.dei
Guest
No one here has to prove anything to you. If you’re not interested enough in the facts to listen to or read a presentation of them, then that’s on you, not us.Because it would demonstrate that you’ve actually watched it and that you’re actually familiar with whatever arguments and evidence you think he presents.
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adamhovey1988
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I’m kind of glad that I haven’t been following this conversation, because it doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. I have a Douay Rheims Bible, with every Pope in it, except Pope Francis because it was published before he was Pope, I wrote him in, and there is no Pope Joan in it. She never existed, the earliest evidence of her existing, is centuries after she supposedly did.
Well.Anyone here believe she existed? Can you back up your answer for or against with evidence?
A cursory examination of the list of popes listed here…
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm
Shows no pope Joan.
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stpurl
Guest
“Our” position? You have made the charge for the supposed existence. Prithee, it is your responsibility to give the evidence for your position.
Forgive me if this lacks charity, but one grows a little tired of people slamming down hypotheticals and telling us to ‘justify our position that this didn’t occur’.
Forgive me if this lacks charity, but one grows a little tired of people slamming down hypotheticals and telling us to ‘justify our position that this didn’t occur’.
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Unbound68
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. . . . I have charged no such thing, nor have I made a positive claim for or against the existence of pope Joan at all. . . . . I asked a question in the OP and one of you replied and immediately made the charge that she did not exist.“Our” position? You have made the charge for the supposed existence. Prithee, it is your responsibility to give the evidence for your position.
I asked for evidence for your claims for or against her existence (not knowing for sure if everyone here held the exact same belief) and all you guys can do is give me links to other people’s videos, and a list of popes from the new advent site. . . .
How was that list of popes arrived at?
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You are new here. So you may not be completely familiar with the forum guidelines and the request that we be charitable in our responses with one another.Perhaps you should learn how to read.
Agreed. You have.I asked for evidence for your claims for or against her existence
And a few people here have provided it.
Would it make such a big difference if I simply listed all of the popes and pointed out the absence of the name?and all you guys can do is give me links to other people’s videos, and a list of popes from the new advent site that obviously has never been critically challenged by any of you.
I really do not understand this problem with a link to a list. Each entry is hyperlinked and one can easily drop further into detail with each entry.
I can assure you that this subject is not unique, and this question has been critically examined. There simply is no evidence of a pope Joan. And the line of succession is unbroken, so there is no place where someone could claim she was.
History.How was that list of popes arrived at?
Each pope is documented.
It does not take much to go through archives and build a list.
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Unbound68
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Using her absence from the papal list as evidence for her non existence is so simplistic an argument that one can only assume you haven’t investigated this topic in-depth at all.Would it make such a big difference if I simply listed all of the popes and pointed out the absence of the name?
The sheer number of works published on the topic of pope Joan - published in several languages over several centuries - shows how much of a non-argument your statement is. . . .
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Unbound68
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Indeed. So show me where in history it was determined that Leo IV died in 855, when the manuscripts of the liber pontificalis only give the day and month.History.
Each pope is documented.
It does not take much to go through archives and build a list.
And since I see that it has recently been decreed that this topic shut down automatically in two days rather than the normal two weeks after the last response, I take it that my comments on the topic of pope Joan are not wanted.
For those in search of truth, start with your own Vatican Mss such as 3762, 3764, 1046 and the Paris Mss 5140 and 5516.
Good day.
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Maximian
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The total absence of any contemporary evidence for a female Pope, and the fact that the story only appears 500 years later, should be enough to dismiss it as a fiction.
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puer.dei
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If you were “in search of truth,” you wouldn’t reject all contemporary evidence out of hand. You’ve clearly decided in favor of fiction, so there was no point in even “asking.”For those in search of truth
Only a single truth is necessary to dispell a falsehood.The sheer number of works published on the topic of pope Joan - published in several languages over several centuries - shows how much of a non-argument your statement is. . . .
That numerous others make up falsehood does not give it any more credibility.
Are we changing the subject?show me where in history it was determined that Leo IV died in 855, when the manuscripts of the liber pontificalis only give the day and month.
It is more likely the insulting tone taken by some.since I see that it has recently been decreed that this topic shut down automatically in two days rather than the normal two weeks after the last response, I take it that my comments on the topic of pope Joan are not wanted.
There have been many other threads on “pope Joan” that not end in such a fashion.
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puer.dei
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That didn’t last long.nor have I made a positive claim for or against the existence of pope Joan at all. .
Using her absence from the papal list as evidence for her non existence is so simplistic an argument that one can only assume you haven’t investigated this topic in-depth at all.
The sheer number of works published on the topic of pope Joan - published in several languages over several centuries - shows how much of a non-argument your statement is. .
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