Pope JP2 a Liberal?

[ncjohn]

Since you have shown that you cannot say that you believe Allah is the Trinity, It is obvious you believe it as such.

Once again, I can’t figure out what your sentence means so I’m not sure what it is you are implying I believe.

Apparently your belief though is that we worship a different God than the Jews. And apparently that St. Peter worshipped a different God than we do since he didn’t worship the Trinity, as that theological understanding didn’t even exist yet then.

Your leaps in logic and your attempts to assign beliefs to others are very interesting though. How you went from my statement that Jesus never asked anyone to change religions to “No salvation outside the universal Church” is beyond me. If you can show me one single place, anywhere in the Bible, where JESUS told someone to change their religion I will gladly apologize and withdraw my statement. In my many times through the gospels though I have yet to find one. Hint: Jesus only speaks in the gospels, not in any of the other passages you guys keep wanting to quote.

As to your salvation outside the Church comment, I have no idea how that relates to anything I said, but I will make clear that I do fully believe that salvation comes through the Church through the salvific work of Christ, though that does not imply any kind of Feenyite understanding of that.

My beliefs are those of the Church as actually taught, not as interpreted by the SSPX or others who subscribe to the ideas that there are “inconsistencies” or doctrinal conflicts. Since all of this is totally off topic though I’ll leave it at that and leave you to your preoccupation with assigning beliefs to me.

Peace,

 

[catharina]

Once again, I can’t figure out what your sentence means so I’m not sure what it is you are implying I believe.

Apparently your belief though is that we worship a different God than the Jews. And apparently that St. Peter worshipped a different God than we do since he didn’t worship the Trinity, as that theological understanding didn’t even exist yet then.

Your leaps in logic and your attempts to assign beliefs to others are very interesting though. How you went from my statement that Jesus never asked anyone to change religions to “No salvation outside the universal Church” is beyond me. If you can show me one single place, anywhere in the Bible, where JESUS told someone to change their religion I will gladly apologize and withdraw my statement. In my many times through the gospels though I have yet to find one. Hint: Jesus only speaks in the gospels, not in any of the other passages you guys keep wanting to quote.

As to your salvation outside the Church comment, I have no idea how that relates to anything I said, but I will make clear that I do fully believe that salvation comes through the Church through the salvific work of Christ, though that does not imply any kind of Feenyite understanding of that.

My beliefs are those of the Church as actually taught, not as interpreted by the SSPX or others who subscribe to the ideas that there are “inconsistencies” or doctrinal conflicts. Since all of this is totally off topic though I’ll leave it at that and leave you to your preoccupation with assigning beliefs to me.

Peace,

As this poster has suggested, only God is God. God is the only God. If Jews and Moslems pray to Eternal God (and they do), then they are praying to the only God. It’s that simple.

 

[St_Isidore]

Once again, I can’t figure out what your sentence means so I’m not sure what it is you are implying I believe.

Let me simplify for you:

Allah = Holy Trinity
True(yes) or False(no)?----------____________________

Apparently your belief though is that we worship a different God than the Jews. And apparently that St. Peter worshipped a different God than we do since he didn’t worship the Trinity, as that theological understanding didn’t even exist yet then.

So do the Jews today, since Christ who is God revealed himself and all the truths, worship the Trinity?

Yes or No?-------------____________________________

 

[catharina]

Let me simplify for you:

Allah = Holy Trinity
True(yes) or False(no)?----------____________________

So do the Jews today, since Christ who is God revealed himself and all the truths, worship the Trinity?

Yes or No?-------------____________________________

I’m not sure why you would belabor your point.

Anyone who worships the one and only eternal God does in fact worship the Blessed Trinity whether he/she realizes it or not. If you recall the primary defintiton of God from long-ago school days it is this: “God is the Supreme Being Who made all things and keeps them in existence.” Maybe your education as a Catholic did not begin back in those days, but the primary definition has not changed - any more than a dying six-yr-old would be “required” to define the Holy Trinity or the Sacraments in order to enter heaven as a full-fledged and “proper” Roman Catholic.

God is God. All faith begins there.

People with more limited faith might have never experienced the fact of a loving Christian in their lives. That is an obstacle “we” might present to them and for which some might be found guilty.

 

[catharina]

Incidentally, the fact that the “three great religions” worship one God is not new news. I learned it in RC grammar school in the 1940s and 1950s. Anyone who imagines this teaching arrived as some great distortion as a result of Vatican II is quite mistaken.

The oldest prayer (of the most revered prayers) in Judaism remains:
“Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.”

I forget the Hebrew at the moment but it begins “Baruch Adonai … .”
The OT Jews were surrounded by people who worshipped many gods.

As Catholics, we pray to three Divine Persons in One God.

What’s your point, Isidore?
I guess I must be missing it.

 

[catharina]

Before you begin to denounce the Koran and Torah and Talmud, let me say that it’s obvious and regrettable that Jews and Moslems do not share the fullness of faith that one finds in Christianity nor do other Christians find the fullness of faith when they remain outside the Church. Therefore, we evangelize. We do not rebuke. We evangelize.

Unless you’re St. Peter or St. Paul. If that’s the case, I apologize and God bless you.

 

[latinmass]

Before you begin to denounce the Koran and Torah and Talmud, let me say that it’s obvious and regrettable that Jews and Moslems do not share the fullness of faith that one finds in Christianity nor do other Christians find the fullness of faith when they remain outside the Church. Therefore, we evangelize. We do not rebuke. We evangelize.

Unless you’re St. Peter or St. Paul. If that’s the case, I apologize and God bless you.

Let’s not forget that he who rejects the Son rejects the Father. Yes, we must evangelize and tell all that Jesus and His Church are the only way to salvation. This is why we were commanded to tell the world by Jesus. This is where V2 is ambiguous and have lead some astray from the clear teaching of the Church for the almost 2000 years previous.

 

[catharina]

Let’s not forget that he who rejects the Son rejects the Father. Yes, we must evangelize and tell all that Jesus and His Church are the only way to salvation. This is why we were commanded to tell the world by Jesus. This is where V2 is ambiguous and have lead some astray from the clear teaching of the Church for the almost 2000 years previous.

Are you suggesting that Vatican II forbade evangelization?
I don’t recall that at all.

 

[kingdomofgod123]

I think every religion people are liberal towards there religion. While coming to Christianity every Christian is liberal to his Christian religion. The world has been blessed to have Pope John Paul II for the past 27 years. Many people have called him The Man of the Century. Pope John Paul II was certainly one of the best known and most revered men on earth. According to the Reverend Billy Graham, “He’ll go down in history as the greatest of our modern popes. He’s been the strong conscience of the whole Christian world” and he is liberal.

 

[daniel_connolly]

I think some consider that because of all the craziness that happened in the Church under his pontificate.

Yet it seems to me that he was in a difficult situation, as many Bishops and Priests would not listen to him and were in open rebellion. To maintain unity he had to allow for a lot of leeway so he let things go like allowing altar girls.

He in the meantime spent time traveling and building support for the Papacy instead of coming down hard on disobedience.

How is it possible that John Paul II caved with allowing altar girls, changed the Rosary, crucifix, Spirit of Assisi (to name a few) but then tried to excommunicate those who refused to bow to such novelties? Those who defended the Church, Rome and the Papacy were then tossed out. And now everyone is welcome- but them?? That is one question I’m still scratching my head over.

That Archbishop Levebvre was excommunicated for ‘disobedience’ is utterly laughable as his only aim was to reject all the items mentioned about JPII in the above quote.

Dump the ‘New Theology’, that’s my feeling anyway…