Pope not Catholic?

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JPII can’t be canonized without proof of 2 miracles…this is decided by a board of medical Drs…I am not sure where Palmas is going with his remark about a maniacal hurry to canonize him

I don’t think there is anything at all rigged about this process…Of course I am not saying Palmas does either…only that the lifting of the 5 year waiting period was done because of JPII’s holiness and his universal goodness toward all mankind

I suspect this ticks off many who want to view loving your neighbor as somehow a sinister act
 
AdriannaJean said:
** And who are we to say that parts, maybe not all, of the Qu’ran is divinely inspired? **
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You and I personally, no one.

But the Church declared that the Written Deposit of Faith to be finished with the death of the last Apostle, John.

Since Mohammed was born centuries after John died, it is therefore impossible for any part of the Qu’ran to be divine revelation.
 
Brendan said:
You and I personally, no one.

But the Church declared that the Written Deposit of Faith to be finished with the death of the last Apostle, John.

Since Mohammed was born centuries after John died, it is therefore impossible for any part of the Qu’ran to be divine revelation.
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Brendan I don’t know much about the Koran but don’t they accept the first 5 books of the Old Testament? Perhaps that is what the Pope was kissing…
 
redrosetea said:
JPII can’t be canonized without proof of 2 miracles…this is decided by a board of medical Drs…I am not sure where Palmas is going with his remark about a maniacal hurry to canonize him

I don’t think there is anything at all rigged about this process…Of course I am not saying Palmas does either…only that the lifting of the 5 year waiting period was done because of JPII’s holiness and his universal goodness toward all mankind

I suspect this ticks off many who want to view loving your neighbor as somehow a sinister act
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You know exactly where I am going. The plain truth is that many were clamoring to canonize him immediately after his demise. There has been more pressue to canonize him than probably on any other person in history. To me to pursue this within such a short time after his death is disrespectful to the entire process. The changing of the time frame requirement is ample proof of that. So what are we going to do? Return to the days when public acclamation decided the issue? Yes he was wildly popular. That does not make him a Saint and quite frankly should not enter into the equation…

As an example lets take Saint Bernadette. She died when 1879 and wasn’t canonized until 1933. That is a period of 54 years and she had a whole lot more going for her than did John Paul II. Or the Mexican Martyrs.who were canonized in 2000. They were martyred for the faith between 1926 and 1929. That equals out to 40 years or so. I remember the complaints then that their process had been accelerated due to a desire to give Mexico more saints and try to stem the steady flow of Catholics leaving the Church in Mexico.

I just think that pushing for sainthood as is being done in the case of John Paul II is not in the best interest of the faith. Will he be canonized? Yes, definitely Will it be done soon? Without a doubt. Is it deserved?, Who can say. In his case, I think there are still way too many unsanswered questions and issues that need to be resolved. His Papacy was not without it’s problems.

I say this wth no disrespect to the late Holy Father. He was my Pope and I followed him faithfully. I did not agree with everthing he did. He did a lot of good for the faith, On the other hand, he did some things that charitably speaking could be described as horribly damaging to the faith.

I will repeat, I just feel the urge that many have to canonize him this soon after his death is not in the best interest of the faith. Thats all.

Just my opinion.
 
Despite what you seem to think I am not clairvoyant, and I don’t put words in other peoples mouths

I don’t agree with you about JPII but I admire you for not saying he wasn’t a catholic…I hope this thread gets poofed…It should have never been started
 
redrosetea said:
People slandered Christ also…Christ said in the sermon on the mount you are blessed when you are persecuted for righteousness sake…
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Probably the more productive way of digesting this…but given that the insult is being inflicted by his own flock, I tend to find that egregious and wholly unnecessary. Isn’t there enough persecution and ridicule heaped upon the Catholic leadership from the outside world without entertaining the misguided and unsubstantiated musings of the disaffected?
 
palmas85;:
John Paul II is more than enough as an identifier.
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The original poster didn’t specify whether John Paul I, or John Paul II was meant.
and he was a validly elected Pope.
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CF Pope Gregory XVII

As far as the OP’s original question goes, Canon Law does not mandate that the Pope be Catholic, but rather that he be the best defender of the Catholic Faith that is known to the Cardinals during the conclave. (That is a paraphrase.)

jonathon
 
jblake said:
The original poster didn’t specify whether John Paul I, or John Paul II was meant.
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The OP said ‘John Paul the Great’. That is not a title used for John Paul I.
jblake said:
CF Pope Gregory XVII
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Pope Gregory XVII was a self-proclaimed successor to Pope Paul VI. I don’t understand your reference. You’re not suggesting JPII elected himself, surely?
jblake said:
As far as the OP’s original question goes, Canon Law does not mandate that the Pope be Catholic, but rather that he be the best defender of the Catholic Faith that is known to the Cardinals during the conclave. (That is a paraphrase.)
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Canons 330-5 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law deal with the office of Pope. See:

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P16.HTM

Canon 331 specifies that the Pope is the head of the college of bishops. Canon 332 specifies that if he does not hold the episcopal office at the time of his election, he must have it conferred on him immediately. Given that Canon 378 states that only a Catholic in good standing with at least 5 years’ service as a priest can be elevated to the rank of bishop, your comment above is in error. See:

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P1D.HTM)

I’m not aware of the Canon Law summarised in your assertion re: ‘Best Defender’ etc. Could you please offer a citation? Many thanks.
 
While I believe His Holiness, the late John Paul II, was indeed Holy Father, it should be admitted he did do and write many things which from a theological perspective were at least of grave concern, including the prayer meetings of Asissi which someone mentioned.

This does not make him any less a kind hearted and well-meaning person, but I does mean he is liable, as any man, to excercise poor judgement, which unfortunately it appears he did do more than once. I do not believe he merits the accolade “the Great,” nor to be canonized, but he should be always venerated in our memory and with our prayers.

By the way, the theologians have always taught that a man must be Catholic to be Pope. As St. Robert Bellarmine wrote: “One must be a member of that organization to which he is head.”
 
It would appear to me that the Pope was certainly negligent in a number of areas, not the least of which is selection of Bishops, Discipline regarding the sacraments and a few others.

Also I disagreed with a number of his actions including Assisi, and the kissing of the koran.

However I would be very wary of saying he was negligent because of the malice of people within the church who disagree with the church teaching fighting him.

I am becoming less sure what I would do in certain situations as I get older.

Paul
 
PaulAndrew83 said:
It would appear to me that the Pope was certainly negligent in a number of areas, not the least of which is selection of Bishops, Discipline regarding the sacraments and a few others.

Also I disagreed with a number of his actions including Assisi, and the kissing of the koran.

However I would be very wary of saying he was negligent because of the malice of people within the church who disagree with the church teaching fighting him.

I am becoming less sure what I would do in certain situations as I get older.

Paul
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Nicely put. 👍
 
There is only one thing more I would like to say.

I would wish that all this clamoring of John Paul 2 the great needs to stop until a long time has passed and we know more about what has gone on. One thing the Pope had even said before he died was that he was not authoritarian eneogh.

We are going to need two Pope Saints of the order of Pope St Pius X and V to clean up the mess that the Church is in now.

Paul
 
PaulAndrew83 said:
There is only one thing more I would like to say.

I would wish that all this clamoring of John Paul 2 the great needs to stop until a long time has passed and we know more about what has gone on. One thing the Pope had even said before he died was that he was not authoritarian eneogh.

We are going to need two Pope Saints of the order of Pope St Pius X and V to clean up the mess that the Church is in now.

Paul
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Really? Which Pope Saint was it that cleaned up the Arian heresy, which was at least as bad if not worse than any problems we’re having now?

In any event, let’s start praying for Benedict to become, if he isn’t already, Benedict the Great! And every Pope after him as well.
 
preV2tradcath said:
True. And someone like Blessed Pius IX would also help.
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Who was beatified by Pope John Paul the Great, btw.

FWIW, both Pope Gregory the Great and Leo the Great were canonized by popular acclaim–and given the epithet “the great”.
 
LilyM said:
Really? Which Pope Saint was it that cleaned up the Arian heresy, which was at least as bad if not worse than any problems we’re having now?

In any event, let’s start praying for Benedict to become, if he isn’t already, Benedict the Great! And every Pope after him as well.
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Amen, my friend! 👍😃
 
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