Pope Proposes Mystic as Guide for Reading Scripture

[mdgspencer]

Pope Benedict begins speaking in a general way of the spiritual experiences of St. Veronica, an Eighteenth-Century mystic, then, after pointing out how her writings are filled with quotes from Scripture, explains that her experience was anchored in Scripture with an uncommon intensity, that Scripture became life in her. Her experience guides one into a more profound and spiritual reading of Scripture; it gives one insight into the hidden profundity of Scripture.
See www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=110233

 

[BornAgain2010]

Pope Benedict begins speaking in a general way of the spiritual experiences of St. Veronica, an Eighteenth-Century mystic, then, after pointing out how her writings are filled with quotes from Scripture, explains that her experience was anchored in Scripture with an uncommon intensity, that Scripture became life in her. Her experience guides one into a more profound and spiritual reading of Scripture; it gives one insight into the hidden profundity of Scripture.
See www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=110233

I was gonna post. But you really dont want my opinion on this.

 

[itinerant1]

Pope Benedict begins speaking in a general way of the spiritual experiences of St. Veronica, an Eighteenth-Century mystic, then, after pointing out how her writings are filled with quotes from Scripture, explains that her experience was anchored in Scripture with an uncommon intensity, that Scripture became life in her. Her experience guides one into a more profound and spiritual reading of Scripture; it gives one insight into the hidden profundity of Scripture.
See www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=110233

Great talk by the pope about St. Veronica. The trick is to find the writings of St. Veronica. There is a good video on the web about her life:
youtube.com/watch?v=Wqt6Ar1TFu4&NR=1

 

[grndslm]

I was gonna post. But you really dont want my opinion on this.

WHO TOLD YOU that you were allowed to have an opinion on decisions of the papacy??

Well, since Christ Jesus emphasized equality before all else, I’d say that Christ gave me the authority to look toward God for the answer. God has shown me that looking toward the OLDEST texts as a source of modern translations is the only way to go. Why would you prefer to listen to the opinion of a guy’s alleged favorite translator of another translation of another translator, etc., instead of listen to the Message of Christ Jesus, Himself??

 

[Mintaka]

The Pope’s now done about five zillion weekly audience talks on apostles, Fathers of the Church, ecclesiastical writers, and saints. Every single one, he recommends you to read and use as a guide for better understanding of liturgy, Scripture, Tradition, church history, logic, or the beauty of Creation. Sometimes all of the above.

That’s just what professors do – they keep giving you more outside reading.

So yeah, there’s probably good stuff in all of them, and even better stuff if you read them all in synthesis with each other. If you understand mystical writings properly, they can give you insight. So can paintings or poems or other unscholarly kinds of writings. There’s more to understanding Scripture than a dictionary and a doctorate; life experience, holiness, innocence, and imagination can also be big helps. It’s like anything else; you just have to be prudent and discerning in how you use what you read.

 

[itinerant1]

WHO TOLD YOU that you were allowed to have an opinion on decisions of the papacy??

Well, since Christ Jesus emphasized equality before all else, I’d say that Christ gave me the authority to look toward God for the answer. God has shown me that looking toward the OLDEST texts as a source of modern translations is the only way to go. Why would you prefer to listen to the opinion of a guy’s alleged favorite translator of another translation of another translator, etc., instead of listen to the Message of Christ Jesus, Himself??

1. On whose authority do you rely to know which books (manuscripts) are Scripture and which are not?
2. And why should anyone prefer to listen to your opinion, as merely some guy who alleges to know better about oldest texts? After all, many old texts have corruptions due to copying errors, and so on.
3. Do you read the oldest texts in their original languages, and know which versions are more reliable than others?
4. What is your argument to show that “Christian anarchist” is not a contradiction in terms?

 

[grndslm]

1. On whose authority do you rely to know which books (manuscripts) are Scripture and which are not?
2. And why should anyone prefer to listen to your opinion, as merely some guy who alleges to know better about oldest texts? After all, many old texts have corruptions due to copying errors, and so on.
3. Do you read the oldest texts in their original languages, and know which versions are more reliable than others?
4. What is your argument to show that “Christian anarchist” is not a contradiction in terms?

Click my name and you will find all that you want to know.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Well, since Christ Jesus emphasized equality before all else,

Hardly. “Slaves, be obedient to your earthly masters…” (Eph 6:5, Col 3:22, etc.)

I’d say that Christ gave me the authority to look toward God for the answer.

How did God give you authority exactly? What is the extent of this authority?

Why would you prefer to listen to the opinion of a guy’s alleged favorite translator of another translation of another translator, etc., instead of listen to the Message of Christ Jesus, Himself??

Coming from someone who rejects the idea that Christ established an authoritative Church, and the fact that you are pushing a dynamic equivalence translation bible, this is almost laughable. What’s worse is you don’t even seem to see the problem with this.

 

[Crumpy]

and each of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us to his own way. Sounds like the trajectory of the comments in this thread.

What a way to try to spoil what the Holy Father said. Some people.

After a false start or two, I’m reading (the late) Fr. Thomas Dubay’s FIRE WITHIN, about the writings of St John of the Cross and St. Theresa of Avila.

Like a cab driver who sometimes takes the route you know is wrong, or a least out of the way, Dubay takes a long time to say things, it seems. I’m learning to just forge ahead and look for what is most relevant and important. But, it turns out, it is right on the mark of what the Holy Father is saying.

The point made well by Dubay that this is not a pious exercise for the cloistured, but it is really the universal call to holiness of the gospels and all scripture, to achieve or at least to strive for even an earthly mystical union with Christ. It certainly is right there in the scriptures, as Dubay points out.

It is excellent to have His Holiness point this out at any time and to highlight the imporance of scripture in each of our individual lives. Dubay also points out that such mystical union is quite common with the saints, so Benedict’s remarks are not surprising but well taken by all.

 

[E.E.N.S]

and each of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us to his own way. Sounds like the trajectory of the comments in this thread.

What a way to try to spoil what the Holy Father said. Some people.

After a false start or two, I’m reading (the late) Fr. Thomas Dubay’s FIRE WITHIN, about the writings of St John of the Cross and St. Theresa of Avila.

Like a cab driver who sometimes takes the route you know is wrong, or a least out of the way, Dubay takes a long time to say things, it seems. I’m learning to just forge ahead and look for what is most relevant and important. But, it turns out, it is right on the mark of what the Holy Father is saying.

The point made well by Dubay that this is not a pious exercise for the cloistured, but it is really the universal call to holiness of the gospels and all scripture, to achieve or at least to strive for even an earthly mystical union with Christ. It certainly is right there in the scriptures, as Dubay points out.

It is excellent to have His Holiness point this out at any time and to highlight the imporance of scripture in each of our individual lives. Dubay also points out that such mystical union is quite common with the saints, so Benedict’s remarks are not surprising but well taken by all.

I have read several of Fr. Dubay’s books, I quite enjoy them, very edifying.

 

[itinerant1]

Click my name and you will find all that you want to know.

I see no answers to any of my questions. Perhaps you have none.

 

[mdgspencer]

You are right, our own response to Scripture is the important thing. We ourselves should stand before Jesus as we read the Gospels. However, Christians will turn to recent interpreters of Scripture to help them understand it. For example, preachers at worship services commonly interpret Scripture, and the people listen. And there are a huge array of publications interpreting Scripture, by,Protestant and Orthodox Bible commentators. People do not commonly turn to the earliest texts (and how many can deal with texts in Greek, Hebrew and Latin as well), but more recent writings and even sermons they hear to help them understand Scripture.
The post on St. Veronica was simply meant to indicate another way of understanding Scripture, looking at someone whose life is living in conformity with the Christ of the Gospels. Once in awhile, too rarely, I meet someone that I think holy, and I may find that such a person a manifestation of some part of what Christ is.

WHO TOLD YOU that you were allowed to have an opinion on decisions of the papacy??

Well, since Christ Jesus emphasized equality before all else, I’d say that Christ gave me the authority to look toward God for the answer. God has shown me that looking toward the OLDEST texts as a source of modern translations is the only way to go. Why would you prefer to listen to the opinion of a guy’s alleged favorite translator of another translation of another translator, etc., instead of listen to the Message of Christ Jesus, Himself??

 

[grndslm]

1. On whose authority do you rely to know which books (manuscripts) are Scripture and which are not?
2. And why should anyone prefer to listen to your opinion, as merely some guy who alleges to know better about oldest texts? After all, many old texts have corruptions due to copying errors, and so on.
3. Do you read the oldest texts in their original languages, and know which versions are more reliable than others?
4. What is your argument to show that “Christian anarchist” is not a contradiction in terms?

1. By God’s authority, of course. Who do YOU look to for authority?
2. Did I really say “I know better about oldest texts”??

The corruptions, mistranslations, and copying errors only get WORSE AND WORSE with the newer texts, especially anything that goes thru Latin. Surely, you can agree with this.

The NAB, as far as I know, only looks at the Greek texts, while the GNT looks at the Aramaic texts too (I think this is called the Peshitta). And not only that, but the NAB is still not written in incredibly modern English. Read the Amazon reviews below… so many people talk about how other versions of the Bible cause people to give up or fall asleep, but they can read the GNT from cover to cover, and it’s been the biggest motivation for them to study the Bible, and even other translations.

1. Of course not, but other people here DO! Pick a verse, ANY verse… and we’ll discover its Author’s TRUE Intent… And they are more than welcome to refute my claims with their own counter-claims, within that thread. As far as I am concerned, there haven’t been any legitimate counter-claims against the GNT (quite a few FOR the GNT, however)… altho, just about everyone that has entered that thread has offered the same opinion that “dynamic equivalence is just a paraphrase and it drops words/meaning”. This is an opinion that is not based in reality or fact.

Would it make you feel better if someone told you that the Catholic Church APPROVED of the GNT translation… BECAUSE IT DID!!

Are you, the obedient slaves to the RCC, going to say that the RCC is leading you astray in their approval?!

1. I could give you a quick blurb about “Christian Anarchism” and “Libertarian-Socialism”, but you’d be better off just Googling them yourself to get an even more detailed answer. If you think either one of those are contradictory, then you probly didn’t understand the meanings of the individual terms to begin with.

Hardly. “Slaves, be obedient to your earthly masters…” (Eph 6:5, Col 3:22, etc.)

How did God give you authority exactly? What is the extent of this authority?

Coming from someone who rejects the idea that Christ established an authoritative Church, and the fact that you are pushing a dynamic equivalence translation bible, this is almost laughable. What’s worse is you don’t even seem to see the problem with this.

1. Sorry, but Christ Jesus never said that. Paul said that.

How about Exodus 21:1-7 && Matthew 5:20 && Mark 10:18. Paul also had some other words about slaves in Galations 3:26-28.

God gave everybody the authority to do as they wish. This is free-will, is it not?? EVERYONE has rightful authority over themselves. That is the beauty of LIFE.

And THIS is why I am a Christian Anarchist. All men are equal, as Jesus said in a hundred different ways (or Genesis states that men have authority over animals, but never says that men have authority over other men), and He also stated to look directly to God!!

1. I never said that there is no authoritative Church. Christ Jesus is the authority for our Church, and he always points us to God! Mark 10:18. He always states that He only does what His Father in Heaven wants. In Matthew 16:18, Jesus tells Peter that the only reason he was able to recognize Jesus as the Son of the Living God is specifically because he got it directly from God, The Father, and not any man.

You’re also getting hung up on the phrase dynamic equivalence a bit much. You were probly given a bad example of dynamic equivalence or something, but I’m fairly certain that you’re not speaking directly about the Good News Translation… just some theoretical, conceptual, half-understood blurb from Wikipedia.

Point blank, I would prefer to hear the message of Christ Jesus, as best we know it without going thru Latin (Catholics just love this part), in my native tongue, so that I might understand THE MESSAGE AND SPIRIT OF CHRIST! It makes virtually NO difference to me whether Gabriel called Mary blessed, highly favored, or full of grace. This one little hangup has caused you people to post for “ages” about which one is right, and, some even, choose to post about how we can retrofit the original manuscripts to actually say “full of grace”, since the Church has decrees and prayers which use this particular phrase. All that matters is that Mary was “really, really, really, realy GOOD; in fact, THE BEST WOMAN”. That is the message of Luke 1:28.

amazon.com/Good-News-Bible-Deuterocanonicals-Translation/product-reviews/1585160687/ref=cm_cr_pr_recent?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

Read those reviews and tell me that people don’t understand this Bible more than any other translation. WHO IS THE BIBLE REALLY FOR???

 

[grndslm]

This was my favorite review of those 18, by the way…

I speaks chinese,and my english isn’t very well.
All I want to say is “It’s easy for me to understand the bible,and with this translation,I like to read Bible”
I think with this version my english will be better.
Reading Bible everyday is now an wonderful thing for me.
Thanks for Good News Bible,you help me a lot,and thanks for God.

I repeat… WHO IS THE BIBLE REALLY FOR??

It’s interesting to note that only ONE of those 18 didn’t give the GNT/GNB/TEV translation 5 Stars, because that author’s review was nothing more than a plug for his own book.

 

[E.E.N.S]

God gave everybody the authority to do as they wish. This is free-will, is it not?? EVERYONE has rightful authority over themselves. That is the beauty of LIFE.

You are clearly confusing authority with free will, regardless, as has been pointed out by another poster, this is a divergence from the thread topic so no need to digress further.