Pope St. Pius V's encyclical "Quo Primum"

  • Thread starter Thread starter AllSeasons
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

AllSeasons

Guest
How do you reconcile the Novus Ordo Mass with Pope St. Pius V’s encyclical “Quo Primum,” which explicitly bans changes to the (Latin) Mass. It explicitly states:
Furthermore, by these presents [this law], in virtue of Our Apostolic authority, We grant and concede in perpetuity that, for the chanting or reading of the Mass in any church whatsoever, this Missal is hereafter to be followed absolutely, without any scruple of conscience or fear of incurring any penalty, judgment, or censure, and may freely and lawfully be used. Nor are superiors, administrators, canons, chaplains, and other secular priests, or religious, of whatever title designated, obliged to celebrate the Mass otherwise than as enjoined by Us. We likewise declare and ordain that no one whosoever is forced or coerced to alter this Missal, and that this present document cannot be revoked or modified, but remain always valid and retain its full force notwithstanding the previous constitutions and decrees of the Holy See, as well as any general or special constitutions or edicts of provincial or synodal councils, and notwithstanding the practice and custom of the aforesaid churches, established by long and immemorial prescription - except, however, if more than two hundred years’ standing.
How do you reconcile this? It’s saying no one, including future popes, may alter the missal.
 
How do you reconcile this? It’s saying no one, including future popes, may alter the missal.
It doesn’t say anything about future popes. Pius V standardized the Roman Missal but no Pope can bind future Popes on such matters. Small changes have been made to the Missal a number of times. Some think that Paul VI’s changes were too great but nobody can claim that he had no authority to make them.
 
To the OP, your answer is in the below thread.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9541721&postcount=15

I’ve quoted Brother JR’s comment to make it easier.
No . . . Quo Primum in binding only until another pope or council changes it. It is not a dogmatic decree, nor a matter of divinely revealed moral law.

Popes can overrule other popes and entire councils as well. Popes are bound only by Divinely revealed moral law, which is revealed in scripture and in nature and by revealed dogma.

Liturgical rites are not dogmas. The sacrament is a dogma, not the rite. For example, Pope John Paul approved an anaphora from the East that does not have the words of consecration as valid and licit, because it dates back to one of the apostles. who did not use the words of consecration as did the other apostles.

The point is that even among the apostles, there were differences in liturgical laws. There are essentials that must be preserved and there are other things that can be changed by the authority of the pope.

Remember, it was not Vatican II that revised the missal. That’s a very common misconception. Vatican II simply called for a revision of the missal. The actual revision was done by a committee and the final edition was reviewed and sealed by Pope Paul VI. Pope Paul VI has as much authority over the mass as Pope Pius V.

Bl. John XXIII had already revised it in 1962. It was not the exact version of the Tridentine Form that St. Pius V was discussing in his day.

The the Law-Giver is Christ who writes the law of the Church into the heart of Peter. Therefore, Peter cannot be bound by any Church or civil law. No church government or civil government can contradict him, overrule him, judge him or sentence him, regardless of what they may accuse him, even if it be true. The pope is above all law, including laws made by his predecessors and by councils.

The only law to which he answers is law directly revealed by God and the only truth to which he is bound is revealed truth (dogma).

This argument about Quo Primum is a misunderstanding of the authority of the pope. People often look at the wording of the document, but fail to look at the subject. The subject is not morality or dogma. It’s liturgy, which falls under rites and disciplines.

The very fact that the Tridentine mass was not imposed on the universal Church tells us that it is not a dogma. Dogmas are held by all 23 Catholic Churches. Rites and liturgical disciplines are not held in common.

Even though Quo Primum was written for the Latin Church, there were groups that were exempt from it: Franciscans, Benedictines, Carmelites, Carthusians, Dominicans, Jesuits, Diocese of Milan, the Mozarabic Catholics in Spain, and any Catholic who attends mass at any of those churches. Therein lays the proof that it was not a dogmatic decree.

Everyone is bound by a dogma. For example, whether you’re Roman Catholic, Greek Catholic or Maronite Catholic, you must believe the Immaculate Conception. You must accept that this or that person is a saint once the pope declares him to be so. Those are binding on all Catholics, no exceptions. This was not the case with Quo Primum, even though the wording makes it sound as if it were. The fact is that the pope, who was a Dominican, exempted his own religious order from Quo Primum and from then on, other orders and other dioceses around the Roman Catholic Church and he bound none of the Eastern Catholic Churches.

It was only binding until another pope or council came along and changed it and only binding on those who were not exempt from it, including the pope’s own order. Most people don’t know that the Dominicans protested vehemently against Quo Primum and Pope St. Pius V, being an obedient son of St. Dominic himself, bowed to the wishes of the Dominicans and did not impose it on them.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
It doesn’t say anything about future popes. Pius V standardized the Roman Missal but no Pope can bind future Popes on such matters. Small changes have been made to the Missal a number of times. Some think that Paul VI’s changes were too great but nobody can claim that he had no authority to make them.
I’ll also point out that right after that, St. Pius V made changes to the Missal, too, IIRC concerning now-obsolete parts commemorating the Emperor in the Canon. Which means either that St. Pius V is a heretic, along with such men as St. Pius X and St. John XXIII (which is an infamous thing to hold) or that, as with all such decrees, it is subject to the natural legislative power of the Pope; that is, his encyclical prohibits ordinaries from changing it without the Holy Father’s permission.
 
Hmm, interesting. By the same logic, Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Mass could be “overturned” by a future pope, too?
Certainly, though since the Council of Trent, no Pope has suppressed any rite or form of the Mass outright.

It is for the Pope, after all, to prescribe the liturgical services of the Church, though he may delegate such authority if he wishes, subject to his approval.
 
Certainly, though since the Council of Trent, no Pope has suppressed any rite or form of the Mass outright.
Didn’t Vatican II suppress the Latin Mass? I thought that’s where all the hoopla came from?
 
Hmm, interesting. By the same logic, Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Mass could be “overturned” by a future pope, too?
Yes and No.

Theoretically, a future pope could call a council and and promulgate a new missal and revise the Mass. Realistically, this is unlikely to happen.
 
Didn’t Vatican II suppress the Latin Mass? I thought that’s where all the hoopla came from?
Actually, no.

In the first place, Vatican II per se did not make any change to the Mass.

Secondly, as the Pope Emeritus explains in Summorum Pontificum, what (now Bl.) Paul VI did was to inaugurate a new form of the Mass (as is his prerogative) and make that the form ordinarily used in the Latin Church (again, as is his prerogative). The Mass of Pius V was not actually suppressed. Else, for example, the so-called Agatha Christie Indult would not have been authorized, for example; nor would the SSPX have been able to form ad experimentum (of course, we know it eventually careened into places it should not have gone).
 
Actually, no.

In the first place, Vatican II per se did not make any change to the Mass.

Secondly, as the Pope Emeritus explains in Summorum Pontificum, what (now Bl.) Paul VI did was to inaugurate a new form of the Mass (as is his prerogative) and make that the form ordinarily used in the Latin Church (again, as is his prerogative). The Mass of Pius V was not actually suppressed. Else, for example, the so-called Agatha Christie Indult would not have been authorized, for example; nor would the SSPX have been able to form ad experimentum (of course, we know it eventually careened into places it should not have gone).
Maybe it wasn’t suppressed in theory, but in practice, it was very much suppressed, right, since all the diocesan parishes switched to the new rite? The ones who still celebrated using the Latin Mass were basically cast out of the Church, in the case of SSPX and other independent priests?
 
Maybe it wasn’t suppressed in theory, but in practice, it was very much suppressed, right, since all the diocesan parishes switched to the new rite? The ones who still celebrated using the Latin Mass were basically cast out of the Church, in the case of SSPX and other independent priests?
There is, of course, a distinction between suppression (where no-one whatsoever can celebrate it) and mere derogation of status to not being the Ordinary Form (which is why the ‘normal’ form of Mass celebrated is the Pauline Mass). While celebrating the older form could not endear you socially to many prelates, in quite a few places and quite a few situations you could do it with episcopal permission (hence the Agatha Christie Indult). What Summorum Pontificum did was remove the red tape essentially.

There is a difference between suppression and merely being heavily discouraged. Hence why the FSSP has been in operation before SP.

The SSPX’s main problem since 1988 hasn’t been their celebration of the Latin Mass, by the way. It is a) their erroneous assertions that the decrees of the Second Vatican Council are contrary to Tradition, and b) their problems with obedience to the Holy Father (supported by an erroneous ecclesiology).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top