Pope's Mass/kneeling and receiving communion on the tongue?

[Brendan]

Exactly, my sentiments as well. However, in fairness to the pastor, for whom I said “apparently” expects, it may be his obedience to the directive of the bishop who approved that structure.

The Ordinary of the diocese may rightly mandate a posture from the Agnus Dei to the personal reception of Holy Communion. The GIRM does not allow an Ordinary to mandate any position other than kneeling during the period from the Sanctus to the Great Amen.

So the priest cannot be concerned about a directive to stand during this time, because, by definition, there cannot be one.

Any statement issued by the bishop contrary to the position mandated by the GIRM has no force and is thus not a directive.

 

[Joysong]

So the priest cannot be concerned about a directive to stand during this time, because, by definition, there cannot be one.

I agree, and must admit then, Brendan, that this is the first parish I ever attended where I observed an abuse of this nature.

[Just to be cautiously clear … we are discussing the GIRM adaptation for the US to kneel from the Sanctus to the Great Amen. Some might be misunderstanding.]

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

The documents I posted ARE the officical canonical ruling and have the force of law under Canon 16.

Sorry, this is your interpretation of that law. You do not have the credentials to interpret the law. I am asking if you have any official ruling on any actual situation. As I said I have never heard of any action against a priest or Bishop for instructing a person to stand.

Lux

 

[grace4u]

I am very very happy with this. Kneeling and receiving communion on the tongue are signs of reverence to God. He is God and He deserves reverence.

I am a Religious Sister and in our congregation we teach our children to receive communion on the tongue kneeling down for years now. If we bow to a king, surely we can kneel for God!

However, in the past, we had encountered priests who refused to allow communion on the tongue kneeling down. We had a hard time but we kept going. Thank God the Pope himself is pushing this back and clarifying to us which one is the rule and which is the exception.

So the principle is “If we are faithful to God, God will be faithful to us.”

 

[japhy]

As I said I have never heard of any action against a priest or Bishop for instructing a person to stand.

Just because you haven’t heard of any action, does not mean there hasn’t been any, nor that there isn’t a policy in place for dealing with priests and bishops who deny Communion to kneeling members of the faithful:

“The Congregation in fact is concerned at the number of similar complaints that it has received in recent months from various places, and considers any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful, namely that of being assisted by their Pastors by means of the Sacraments (Codex Iuris Canonici, canon 213).” [1322/02/L]

“Priests should understand that the Congregation will regard future complaints of this nature with great seriousness, and if they are verified, it intends to seek disciplinary action consonant with the gravity of the pastoral abuse.” [1322/02/L]

“’…while this Congregation gave the recognitio to the norm desired by the Bishops’ Conference of your country that people stand for Holy Communion, this was done on the condition that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds. Indeed, the faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion’.” [47/03/L]

 

[grace4u]

I am trying to follow the other postings but could not make head nor tail or it. What I am getting however are squabbles over some issues. Peace!

Let us just focus on giving God the highest form of reverence internally and externally. I think this is the issue.

‘If we want to change the world, let us start with ourselves.’

 

[Joysong]

Brendan:

Any statement issued by the bishop contrary to the position mandated by the GIRM has no force and is thus not a directive.

LOL, it just occurred to me that the clergy is not paying attention to the adaptation, and is instead following the universal GIRM norm, which in other countries is to stand. Isn’t that the gist of our previous discussion? … i.e., that some, [including clergy in this case] may pick and choose which adaptation to personally follow?

The GIRM includes explicit general norms for posture during the revised Mass. Thus, as a general rule, ministers and people stand throughout the liturgy, particularly during the presidential prayers including the Eucharistic Prayer, following the ancient tradition. Post #32

 

[Joysong]

Dear Sister Grace,

Welcome to the forum! I understand how you would be confused, along with Japhy. In this thread, there was a disagreement concerning one poster’s interpretation of the GIRM, which was not believed to be correct. When she was requested to produce a source, she failed to do so, but instead reinstated the discussion over here in Liturgy & Sacraments, using somewhat of a concession that still attempted to keep her point of view. Many will be confused if they have not followed the other thread.

Benedictgal:

The GIRM for the United States does contain the adaptation for receiving Holy Communion standing and in the hand. But, what you fail to realize is that it is just that, an adaptation. The universal norm established by the Church remains to receive Holy Communion kneeling and on the tongue.

The GIRM in many languages states “kneeling OR standing.” I hope this makes sense.

Nevertheless, I agree that it really depends on interior disposition. Posture alone does not create total reverence in the heart.

 

[Brendan]

LOL, it just occurred to me that the clergy is not paying attention to the adaptation, and is instead following the universal GIRM norm, which in other countries is to stand. Isn’t

No, as mentioned several times, the Universal Norm is to kneel from the Epiclesis to the Memorial Acclamation.

Is that what you are seeing. If the faithful are standing for the entire Eucharistic Prayer, and not kneeling for the Institutional Narrative, then no, it is not a Universal Norm.

 

[Joysong]

Brendan:

No, as mentioned several times, the Universal Norm is to kneel from the Epiclesis to the Memorial Acclamation.

I was kidding, Brendan, as per my LOL, and not referring to kneeling for the institution narrative. We had agreed on this previously, remember? It was a reference to the “other thread” … but if you didn’t catch my meaning, then ok. It’s probably a good idea to let it rest and let me LOL by myself.

 

[sneakers]

Hi,
I don’t know if this subject is being discussed…however, the Pope’s Mass in Southern Italy with kneeling and receiving communion on
the tongue has ruffled a few feathers here.
Do you think we will Ever have our communion rails used again.?

I absolutely hope so!

Having had the happy opportunity to attend an EF mass on occasion, I much prefer kneeling at the altar rail. As another poster pointed out, it allows a bit more time for prayer before getting up and returning to the pew. (yes, yes - I know - I can pray once I’m back in the pew. I want to take a few precious seconds longer, immediately after receiving Jesus, to ‘welcome’ Him) Also, it is wonderful to receive Our Lord from the blessed hands of the priest.

sneakers