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Mr_Skeptic
Guest
I’m curious. Do all Popes automatically attain Sainthood status after they are deceased?
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Pieman333272
Guest
Technically. They attend sainthood (lowercase) as in going to heaven. They need to go through the canonization process to be called Saints in the eyes of the Church.Do all Popes automatically attain Sainthood status after they decease?
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Mr_Skeptic
Guest
Thanks, Pieman.Technically. They attend sainthood (lowercase) as in going to heaven. They need to go through the canonization process to be called Saints in the eyes of the Church.
Does the canonization process occur while the Pope is alive, or after he is deceased…or, is it a little of both?
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Mr_Skeptic
Guest
One more question. Are there living Saints, or, does a person need to be dead before attaining sainthood?
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fermat
Guest
No! Unless a pope is canonized, we can never assume that they went to heaven. There have been some really bad popes in addition to the really good ones. We can pray the popes have lived their lives in a way that would have us believe that they went straight to heaven, but there is no guarantee of that happening. I would be surprised if all popes went to heaven.Technically. They attend sainthood (lowercase) as in going to heaven. They need to go through the canonization process to be called Saints in the eyes of the Church.
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kepha1
Guest
The canonization process for a Pope is the same as for an illiterate farmer. see http://www.catholic-pages.com/saints/process.asp for the steps.Does the canonization process occur while the Pope is alive, or after he is deceased…or, is it a little of both?
Few of us have had the pleasure of actually meeting a living saint. To those of us who have, there is no explaining it.One more question. Are there living Saints, or, does a person need to be dead before attaining sainthood?
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0511fea2sb.asp
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Mr_Skeptic
Guest
Thank you, kepha1.The canonization process for a Pope is the same as for an illiterate farmer. see http://www.catholic-pages.com/saints/process.asp for the steps.
Few of us have had the pleasure of actually meeting a living saint. To those of us who have, there is no explaining it.
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0511fea2sb.asp
From the first link -
“2. To begin a cause it is necessary for at least 5 years to have passed since the death of the candidate.”
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Pieman333272
Guest
OK, you’re right. But I cannot force myself to believe any Pope would go to hell. Maybe a few million years in Purgatory, but not hell.No! Unless a pope is canonized, we can never assume that they went to heaven. There have been some really bad popes in addition to the really good ones. We can pray the popes have lived their lives in a way that would have us believe that they went straight to heaven, but there is no guarantee of that happening. I would be surprised if all popes went to heaven.
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clmowry
Guest
Oh, I’m not so sure of that, we’ve had a doozy or two.OK, you’re right. But I cannot force myself to believe any Pope would go to hell. Maybe a few million years in Purgatory, but not hell.
But I hope you are correct.
Chuck
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LilyM
Guest
If one of Jesus’ own hand-chosen 12 (Judas) could live in such a way that we’re very uncertain of his salvation, indeed in such a way that most Christians are convinced he is in Hell, then why not Popes?OK, you’re right. But I cannot force myself to believe any Pope would go to hell. Maybe a few million years in Purgatory, but not hell.
I look at it in terms of Christ’s comment ‘to whom much is given, of him shall much be required’. A Pope might indeed be given special privileges and graces beyond those most laymen receive, but then has a correspondingly higher duty before God to put those privileges and graces to good use and bear good fruit with them. And so a Pope, it seems to me, would be equally likely to fail in his task as anyone.
One of the saints, St John Chrysostom, made the somewhat cynical comment that ‘the road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops’. There’s no reason to believe that there aren’t at least a few Bishops of Rome (Popes) among the number.
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billquilten
Guest
They have even messages from heaven of the 15 century through Popes, priests ans nuns even as Pope Benedict XVI knows about these things.
illumibrite
illumibrite
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NHInsider
Guest
Just a cautionary note - there are multiple meanings to the word “saint.” In this thread we’re talking about canonized saints - those who have been officially recognized by the Church as being in Heaven. But there are also many, many more faithful in Heaven who have not been canonized - they, too, are saints. AND - those of us who are still here on earth, and those in purgatory, who are saved by grace, are also saints. This is the way Paul uses the term, when he writes to “the saints at Corinth” or wherever. And it is why we talk about the Communion of Saints, which transcends space and time and even death.The canonization process for a Pope is the same as for an illiterate farmer. see http://www.catholic-pages.com/saints/process.asp for the steps.
Few of us have had the pleasure of actually meeting a living saint. To those of us who have, there is no explaining it.
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0511fea2sb.asp
Which is to say that we should all be meeting living saints, and indeed being living saints, if we truly believe what we say we believe. However, there are obviously people who are more nearly “conformed to Christ” while still in this world, and to know those people in the flesh is a great priviledge and amazing experience.
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Todd_Easton
Guest
Here’s a link to a list of popes. The ones that are now canonized saints have the letters “St.” before their names. If I counted right only about 78 of the 266 popes are now canonized saints. Nearly all of the popes during the first 500 years of the Church’s history are canonized saints, roughly half of the popes of the next 300 years are canonized saints, and relatively few of the popes of the last 1200 years are canonized saints.
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NHInsider
Guest
One reason for this discrepancy is that so many of the early popes were martyred.Nearly all of the popes during the first 500 years of the Church’s history are canonized saints, roughly half of the popes of the next 300 years are canonized saints, and relatively few of the popes of the last 1200 years are canonized saints.
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