Post-theistic God

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I don’t think Saint Paul would have pushed the concept of faith in quite that direction. Ultimately, he would say that we are saved by grace, through faith, not through the works of the law. And I imagine that would mean that ultimately we are not saved by our ability to understand doctrine. One could be a doctrinely correct Christian, but if one lacks faith, hope and charity, doctrine “availeth nothing.” On the other hand, Paul warned his readers not to be lead astray by false doctrine. So faith and belief are both important.
 
If you say that you are a Christian becuase you accept the dogma of the Trinity, I wonder what you fcould mean by “accept” since it is often said that if you think that you understand the Trinity, then you don’t understand the Trinity.
Precisely that - accept. One does not need to understand something to accept something as true.
How could Spong be ruled out of Christianity for not accepting a dogma that no one is thought to be able to truly fathom?
Because faith is precisely that, believing in something that one cannot necessarily fathom. Every single believer of God (Trinity or not) believe in Someone they cannot fathom because God will always be beyond our piddly little brains’ comprehension.

Even on the very mundane level, unless you are super duper IT guru, you most likely believe in your computers capability to do complex things even though you probably have no comprehension how the software and hardware relate to allow you to make your post at CAF.

{quote] As a Episcopalian Bishop he is one of the fathers of the Church (which most Christians do NOT take to mean the Roman Catholic Church).
No he is not. Being a bishop does not make him a “Father of the Church” in the sense that I mean. And you know very well the sense that I mean 😉
The term I used to describe his view is “panenthiesm” not “pantheism.” Nevertheless, here you are just begging the question again by presupposing that a Christian who finds little use for theistic conceptions of God is not a true Christian.
Well duhh, Christianity is a theistic belief. :rolleyes:
 
What you have just claimed here is a dogma that most people who claim to be Christian do not believe to be true. Are you saying that only Catholics are really Christians?
First, whether other Christians believe that Christ established the Catholic Church does not make this statement either true or false since the other Christians’ belief does not determine the truth or falsity of this statement.

Second. What is in question here is the the deity of Jesus and the Trinity. All Christians believe that. So called Christians who do not believe that cannot be called Christian because this is the determining factor of whether you can be considered Christian or not. That is why even Protestant do not consider Jehovah’s Witnesses christians. Now I am not talking about bad Christians or good Christians. Simply Christians - people who believe that Jesus is God and He is the second person of th Trinity.
 
Spong is a heretic. Plain and simple. Not only does he have false views about everything from the Trinity to sexuality but he also sounds suspiciously pantheistic. Disgusting. How this man can possibly claim to be Christian while having such heretical views, I’d love to know.
 
Spong is a heretic. Plain and simple. Not only does he have false views about everything from the Trinity to sexuality but he also sounds suspiciously pantheistic. Disgusting. How this man can possibly claim to be Christian while having such heretical views, I’d love to know.
He is, I believe, an Episcopal Bishop. That means he has credentials, papers on the wall of his study which certify that he is a good Christian.

That’s all it takes. Paperwork. In matters of politics, even alleged paperwork is enough, when the financial backing is sufficient.

Once upon a time, shortly before my independence from the Church, I had an appointment with a local Bishop, to facilitate the marriage of a friend (he’d made me “best man”) to a non-Catholic woman. While cooling my heels in his anteroom, I checked out the wall decorations. Aside the door one would open to actually go see the Bishop, there was a nice full color photograph of the somewhat chunky prelate himself, decked out in red silk robes and underlying finery, wearing a hat taller than Don Imus’, and not looking particularly friendly. (As it turned out, he was not.)

On the obscure side of the door was an artist’s rendition of some skinny, bearded guy wearing a towel around his privates, who appeared to wearing a ring of sharp weeds around his head, He was parked fairly permanently on a big wooden cross, to which he appeared to have been nailed. Like the Bishop, this poor guy did not look very happy— but his was a different quality of unhappiness, one to which I could relate.

Since than, I’ve been more selective about the authority figures I choose to respect. Sometimes, weeds and a towel say more than finery or papers. Dogs have papers. Subservient citizens have papers. Bishop Spong is offering you an opportunity to listen up to what is happening in the arcane world of belief.
 
He is, I believe, an Episcopal Bishop. That means he has credentials, papers on the wall of his study which certify that he is a good Christian.

That’s all it takes. Paperwork. In matters of politics, even alleged paperwork is enough, when the financial backing is sufficient.
Paperwork is not what it takes to be a good Christian. Christianity is not some degree you earn.

All that it would have meant was once upon a time he WAS a Christian.
Once upon a time, shortly before my independence from the Church, I had an appointment with a local Bishop, to facilitate the marriage of a friend (he’d made me “best man”) to a non-Catholic woman. While cooling my heels in his anteroom, I checked out the wall decorations. Aside the door one would open to actually go see the Bishop, there was a nice full color photograph of the somewhat chunky prelate himself, decked out in red silk robes and underlying finery, wearing a hat taller than Don Imus’, and not looking particularly friendly. (As it turned out, he was not.)
And what has that got to do with anything?
On the obscure side of the door was an artist’s rendition of some skinny, bearded guy wearing a towel around his privates, who appeared to wearing a ring of sharp weeds around his head, He was parked fairly permanently on a big wooden cross, to which he appeared to have been nailed. Like the Bishop, this poor guy did not look very happy— but his was a different quality of unhappiness, one to which I could relate.
And your point being…?
Since than, I’ve been more selective about the authority figures I choose to respect.
Yep, that’s you. But what you think or does not believe, does not determine whether someone else can be called a Christian.
Sometimes, weeds and a towel say more than finery or papers.
Utterly true. But again, your point being???
Dogs have papers. Subservient citizens have papers. Bishop Spong is offering you an opportunity to listen up to what is happening in the arcane world of belief.
Duhhh, you just said at the very begining of your post that Spong is a good Christian becuase he had papers!!! ??? :eek::eek::rolleyes: Pleaseeeee, have some clarity in the thought processess.
 
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