Power to retain or forgive sin?

[FaithJoy]

Is it possible that Jesus meant something else from John 20:23, Jesus told the disciples, “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” Meaning something else , for example, If I offend a friend or lie to him, he has the power to forgive me of that sin? Only if I sin against him and no other sin. Is that what Jesus possibly only meant by this verse? Or is it more broad giving the apostles/priests this power to forgive all sins?
I would like to hear both sides,Catholics and Protestants on this thought. Please back it up with thoughts and/or verses of your choice.

 

[NotWorthy]

I don’t see how it could mean anything other than the Apostles having the authority to forgive sins.

Remember, you must look at context. What is the context of John 20?

21 *** (Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." 22 *** ***And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, ***"Receive the holy Spirit.

The first thing is that the Father sent Jesus to forgive sins. Jesus sends the Apostles to do the same things.The second thing is that Jesus breathed on them and gave them The Holy Spirit. This tells the readers that something BIG is going to happen.

Regarding you “forgiving a friend who you sinned only against”. No. Jesus addressed this in Matthew. Remember the parable of the wicked servant? The servant was forgiven the huge debt by his master. But when it came time to forgive the lower servant the smaller debt that is only owed to the wicked servant, Jesus says that this is sinful and God will refuse to forgive our sins in return. Jesus does not indicate this in John 20.

 

[FaithJoy]

What is the common protestant thought on this? Is it similar to my example or is it something else? Possibly this authority was given only temporary til Church teaching and the Church was fully engaged after Jesus’ death and resurrection?

Another thought, is this the ONLY way that sins are forgiven? Can this be one of many ways or is there only one narrow path? That would mean only Catholics can be forgiven sins if there is one narrow path.

 

[NotWorthy]

What is the common protestant thought on this? Is it similar to my example or is it something else? Possibly this authority was given only temporary til Church teaching and the Church was fully engaged after Jesus’ death and resurrection?

Another thought, is this the ONLY way that sins are forgiven? Can this be one of many ways or is there only one narrow path? That would mean only Catholics can be forgiven sins if there is one narrow path.

Common Protestant thought? Sometimes finding a common Protestant thought is harder than herding cats!

I’ve heard this authority died with the Apostles.
I’ve heard its simply meant the authority to determine what is sinful and what is not and that this died with the apostles.
I’ve heard it can’t be the authority to forgive sins, for only God can forgive sins!

As regards to “is this the only way to forgive sins”, I believe it is not. But it is a method that Jesus set up. And who are we to determine that this is NOT the way we should be doing it. I mean, how does this sound - “Jesus, I know you set up a way for humans to forgive our sins, but I prefer to go straight to my Heavenly Father. * So thanks, but no thanks*”.

 

[Mark77]

Most Protestants are not aware of this passage from Sacred Scripture, & if they are they do not take it in context because it does not fit into the “me & Jesus” syndrome they espouse.

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[LilyM]

I’ve had someone tell me it only applied until Pentecost as if Jesus was some sort of Indian giver - and one who takes back His gifts after only 50 days, no less!

Not to mention that it would be stating the bleeding obvious on the part of Jesus to declare that a person can forgive those who have sinned against them - well d’uh, of course they can!

What we CAN’T do with those who have sinned against us is flip the coin and retain their sin. After all, if God has forgiven someone who am I to hold a grudge against them? Jesus’ statement speaks to giving the Apostles real authority, not just in regards sins against themselves but all sin.

 

[porthos11]

Is it possible that Jesus meant something else from John 20:23, Jesus told the disciples, “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” Meaning something else , for example, If I offend a friend or lie to him, he has the power to forgive me of that sin? Only if I sin against him and no other sin. Is that what Jesus possibly only meant by this verse? Or is it more broad giving the apostles/priests this power to forgive all sins?
I would like to hear both sides,Catholics and Protestants on this thought. Please back it up with thoughts and/or verses of your choice.

It can’t mean this proposition (i.e. that this covers only offended parties) simply because the Lord did not give us the option to hold the sin of those who offend us, in fact, he promised heavy consequences for those who do so.

This therefore has to refer to something else, something which requires the Lord to authorize his apostles to do by breathing on them.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Another thought, is this the ONLY way that sins are forgiven? Can this be one of many ways or is there only one narrow path? That would mean only Catholics can be forgiven sins if there is one narrow path.

God forgives the sins of anyone who manifests perfect contrition, even non-Catholics.

 

[FaithJoy]

When I do a google search, all I find is a criticism on the Catholic position but no interpretation of any protestant position. They only state Luke 5:21 21The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” Almost as if to say John 20:23 doesn’t exist.
How do we , as Catholics, put these two verses together to make sense?

 

[NotWorthy]

When I do a google search, all I find is a criticism on the Catholic position but no interpretation of any protestant position. They only state Luke 5:21 21The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” Almost as if to say John 20:23 doesn’t exist.
How do we , as Catholics, put these two verses together to make sense?

If you look at Jesus’ words in this way -* “Those sins you forgive, they are forgiven (by ME). Those sins you retain, they are retained (by ME).”*

You see, God IS forgiven the individual’s sin, just as Luke 5 proclaims. The priest is simply acting In Personna Christi (I hope I’m saying this right), with the full authority of God.

I find it odd that a preacher can baptize someone "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" and people can accept that their sins are forgiven. Why do they accept this? Because it says so in Scripture. But yet these same people will deny the Scripture that Jesus so plainly says in John 20.

 

[NHInsider]

I find it odd that a preacher can baptize someone "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" and people can accept that their sins are forgiven. Why do they accept this? Because it says so in Scripture. But yet these same people will deny the Scripture that Jesus so plainly says in John 20.

Most of them think their sins are forgiven because they believe in Jesus, not because they have been baptised. They think that being baptised is just a public proclamation of their faith.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Is it possible that Jesus meant something else from John 20:23, Jesus told the disciples, “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” Meaning something else , for example, If I offend a friend or lie to him, he has the power to forgive me of that sin? Only if I sin against him and no other sin. Is that what Jesus possibly only meant by this verse? Or is it more broad giving the apostles/priests this power to forgive all sins?
I would like to hear both sides,Catholics and Protestants on this thought. Please back it up with thoughts and/or verses of your choice.

I try to look at things with a bit of a mystical twist, whenever I can.

When I forgive, I am releasing poison from my soul, so to speak. I am the beneficiary of this act. If I do not forgive, I am hurting only myself.

Chances are, the person who sinned against me is either sorry or doesn’t care … or doesn’t even remember sinning against me. In either case, forgiveness heals me spiritually of the harm.

So I can think Jesus is telling me that if I want the peace that goes with total forgiveness, I must perfectly forgive others as He has forgiven me.

How much did He forgive me? “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.”

Alan

 

[JRKH]

Originally Posted by FaithJoy
When I do a google search, all I find is a criticism on the Catholic position but no interpretation of any protestant position. They only state Luke 5:21 21The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” Almost as if to say John 20:23 doesn’t exist.
How do we , as Catholics, put these two verses together to make sense?

This also ties in with Mt 18:15-18 and the granting of authority to bind and loose. John 20:21-23, Luke 5:21 and Mt 18:15-18 are all mutually supportive in this way. An addtional support to this is Mt 28:18
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
So All authority in heaven and on earth belongs to Christ.
He passes that authority to the Apostles (to bind and loose, to forgive or retain sin, to make disciples, to baptize etc…)
Who, by virtue of this God given authority, pass on this same authority to their successors.

Peace
James

 

[NotWorthy]

Most of them think their sins are forgiven because they believe in Jesus, not because they have been baptised. They think that being baptised is just a public proclamation of their faith.

Finding a consensus among Protestants on this issue is harder than herding cats.

 

[garysibio]

Is it possible that Jesus meant something else from John 20:23, Jesus told the disciples, “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” Meaning something else , for example, If I offend a friend or lie to him, he has the power to forgive me of that sin? Only if I sin against him and no other sin. Is that what Jesus possibly only meant by this verse? Or is it more broad giving the apostles/priests this power to forgive all sins?
I would like to hear both sides,Catholics and Protestants on this thought. Please back it up with thoughts and/or verses of your choice.

A Protestant friend of mine once suggested this. I pointed out that this could lead to the following scenario: If he offended me and I got hit by a bus before I could find it in my heart to forgive him, he would go to Hell.

 

[JRKH]

A Protestant friend of mine once suggested this. I pointed out that this could lead to the following scenario: If he offended me and I got hit by a bus before I could find it in my heart to forgive him, he would go to Hell.

Very interesting…

Peace
James

 

[garysibio]

When I do a google search, all I find is a criticism on the Catholic position but no interpretation of any protestant position. They only state Luke 5:21 21The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” Almost as if to say John 20:23 doesn’t exist.
How do we , as Catholics, put these two verses together to make sense?

What does the priest say after you confess? “I absolve you in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” “In the name of” means in the authority of. In effect, it is God forgiving the sin.