U
upant
Guest
well done, your guardian angel is smiling.
prayer said for you
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prayer said for you
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twf
Guest
If grave matter is as loosely defined as it is on CAF, it’ll be a miracle if anyone is in heaven outside of the canonized saints. People here see mortal sins in pretty much every daily imperfection. Explain to me who was gravely injured in this scenario?Really? If you are wrong in your declaration are you willing to stand in front of God and take the place of the person you think has no grave matter here
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twf
Guest
Very different scenario. You are removing physical objects from a finite supply. When illicitly duplicating intellectual content, nothing is removed or lost. It’s still wrong, but it’s not the same scenario. When evaluating the gravity of theft, injury to the rightful owner is a criteria.Stealing 100 dollars worth of product is not good. If it was in a grocery store in my state you would go to jail and if you planned to do it, you would be convicted of a felony.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
I’m suprised by the gymnastics here.Very different scenario. You are removing physical objects from a finite supply. When illicitly duplicating intellectual content, nothing is removed or lost. It’s still wrong, but it’s not the same scenario. When evaluating the gravity of theft, injury to the rightful owner is a criteria.
It’s a consumable product. Another poster was correct that it isn’t stealing from the fighters but it IS stealing from the company. People justify it because no one likes media companies.
If I steal from a store, I don’t argue about the consumption of the product. Nor what the actual “cost” is in the store versus the price charged.
My cousin went to the fight. He paid about 4000 per seat. If he “snuck” in somehow, he would have thefted 4000 worth of product…
It’s still “wrong!?”
How about it’s still stealing…
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NonTimendum
Guest
They each get a piece of the PPV numbers so every pirated stream that resulted in a non-PPV buy did, in fact, cut into their potential profit.Absolutely false, neither Floyd or Conor lost any money due to any piracy of the fight, they both had well defined contracts that stated how much they were going to receive before the fight even happened, so even if 5 million people went to the piracy site, their pay would have remained exactly the same.
It’s not okay to steal from the “rich”. And just because i’ve factored in a certain amount of loss due to theft doesn’t mean the theft doesn’t result in potential loss.Not to mention these kinds of things are factored in long before events happen when they set the price, the company airing it, the advertisers, and all the different groups involved know what to expect in terms of roughly how many people will see it illegally, NO ONE actually lost any money due to this, in fact they all made out like bandits.
They’ve been factoring in lossage at retail for a long time, but the fact remains that a candy-bar still has value and the loss of it still results in loss of profit for the company and lost physical investment. A national/regional chain’s ability to absorb the loss doesn’t eliminate the fact of the loss, neither does it justify the theft or eliminate culpability on the part of the thief.Its kind of like retail shoplifting, I work for a very large gas station/ convenience store chain, they took a look at the numbers relating to shoplifting in all their stores and found its effect on the profit margin was so small and insignificant, they actually changed store policy on dealing with shoplifters (we just ignore it for the most part now).
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twf
Guest
It’s not gymnastics. It’s always been Church teaching that stealing a poor man’s last dollar is far graver than stealing $1 from a millionaire. That’s an extreme example where the former is grave matter and the latter venial matter. This is somewhere inbetween, but I still think it’s less harmful to the owner than stealing a physical object- which decreases a limited supply.I’m suprised by the gymnastics here.
It’s a consumable product. Another poster was correct that it isn’t stealing from the fighters but it IS stealing from the company. People justify it because no one likes media companies.
If I steal from a store, I don’t argue about the consumption of the product. Nor what the actual “cost” is in the store versus the price charged.
My cousin went to the fight. He paid about 4000 per seat. If he “snuck” in somehow, he would have thefted 4000 worth of product…
It’s still “wrong!?”
How about it’s still stealing…
As an aside, I think we can all agree that some of the licensing details with media are a major pain. I pay HBO good money. I am entitled to stream all of their content. Last time I went to the US for work I discovered that HBO will only allow me to watch their content when I am physically sitting in Canada. The exact same content is available in both the US or Canada but my money only covers me physically sitting in Canada when viewing… I have to admit I was tempted to pirate in that scenario.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Can you cite this?It’s not gymnastics. It’s always been Church teaching that stealing a poor man’s last dollar is far graver than stealing $1 from a millionaire. That’s an extreme example where the former is grave matter and the latter venial matter. This is somewhere inbetween, but I still think it’s less harmful to the owner than stealing a physical object- which decreases a limited supply.
Where is the mortal cutoff. If you steal 100 dollars from me and 100 dollars from trump is the sin not mortal anymore?
and any mitigation would come from need. Like stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family. However with a PPV. Entertainment product it’s hard to make that distinction.
I’m actually shocked by your view.
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mikekle
Guest
Well, I do not see PPV or other entities setting this kind of thing as a big priority, they all made a huge profit from the fight, in the hundreds of millions if not more, so the fact that a very small percentage ‘stole’ the viewing of the fight, in the end, no one is loosing any sleep over the dollar value lost.They each get a piece of the PPV numbers so every pirated stream that resulted in a non-PPV buy did, in fact, cut into their potential profit.
It’s not okay to steal from the “rich”. And just because i’ve factored in a certain amount of loss due to theft doesn’t mean the theft doesn’t result in potential loss.
They’ve been factoring in lossage at retail for a long time, but the fact remains that a candy-bar still has value and the loss of it still results in loss of profit for the company and lost physical investment. A national/regional chain’s ability to absorb the loss doesn’t eliminate the fact of the loss, neither does it justify the theft or eliminate culpability on the part of the thief.
If I won the lottery and I later found out someone stole $20. from me, I would still consider it stealing and wrong, but to be honest, it wouldnt bother me and would not be a priority for that person to be punished and/or return the money.
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twf
Guest
It’s what I’ve been taught… I can’t cite it off hand. It makes perfect sense to me from a perspective of natural law. I have a handful of US pennies sitting on my dresser from my last trip to the US. They’re useless to me in every sense of the word. You can usually substitute American nickels, dimes and quarters for Canadian ones, but Canada phased pennies out ages ago. If someone stole that handful of pennies, there would be zero harm done to me and I would not want them to carry the weight of mortal sin on their souls for such a trivial offence. Where do you draw the line? That’s a matter for the confessional… but that’s always true of mortal sin. It’s a discernment process.Can you cite this?
Where is the mortal cutoff. If you steal 100 dollars from me and 100 dollars from trump is the sin not mortal anymore?
and any mitigation would come from need. Like stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family. However with a PPV. Entertainment product it’s hard to make that distinction.
I’m actually shocked by your view.
Can anyone help me out?
D
Don_Ruggero
Guest
A priest already has weighed in on this thread…he did so in the second post.It’s a good point
Really, I would like to hear how a priest would answer this question.
And personally, I would add nothing to nor take anything from what he wrote.
The matter should be addressed by the original poster to his confessor.
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