Practical Justification Question

[Reformed_Rob]

Hey! I ask this question here rather than in the “Apologetics” forum because I don’t want to get into a big discussion on the doctrine of Justification.

Ok, with that said, let me say that I come from a Calvinist background (I’m Reformed Presbyterian) and don’t believe the doctrine of “eternal security” and my denomination rejects the “carnal Christian” heresy. So, when I say “justified by faith alone” I don’t mean what is meant by those two things. I mean that man is counted righteous in the eyes of God by his faith in Christ (ie. Luke 7:50 “And He said to the woman, ’ Your faith has saved you; go in peace.’”) And that the faith that saves a man is a living faith, and our confidence is in the God we fear and trust, and knowing He loves us, He will definantly confirm us to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ (I Corinthians 1:8).

So, as a Catholic, what do you believe that’s different than what I believe? Obviously, you don’t believe that anyone is saved by “Faith Alone” because you say that rightousness is infused “given” to a person, and not merely imputed to a person. But how does that play out differently in your life and your prayers? Like, I pray to the effect that I know God has given me faith and delivered me from my sins, and that He would forgive me of my shortcomings and look to the righteousness of Christ accounted to me, rather than to my sinfulness, and have mercy and grant me repentance. And it’s the indwelling Holy Spirit of God that has given me life (regeneration) and works in me to will that which is pleasing to God.

So, I’m just wondering, like I said above, aside from the doctrinal differences, how do Catholics practically understand this “infused righteousness” different than the Calvinist’s “imputed righteousntess?”

 

[MountainMan]

Rob -

I hope I am addressing the correct question. What I would say is that Catholics believe that true faith is followed by Christian behavior. We do our best (and often fail) to be as Christ in the world. That is, we obey his commands to love God with all our soul, all our heart, and all our mind, and our neighbor as ourselves. Faith that is not followed by works, as James writes, is empty.

Hope this helps.

 

[Fidelis]

If I understand you correctly, your prayer consists in acknowledging to God a past and sustained action of his-- that you have been saved through his grace and your faith. A Catholic would pray more like St. Joan of Arc when she was asked by her interogators if she was in a state of sanctifying grace: “If I am not, I pray that God will put me there; if I am, I pray that he will keep me there.”

For a good explanation of this, see the Catholic Answers article, Grace: What It Is and What It Does, available here:

catholic.com/library/Grace_What_It_Is.asp

 

[JimG]

Reformed Rob:

And it’s the indwelling Holy Spirit of God that has given me life (regeneration) and works in me to will that which is pleasing to God.

So, I’m just wondering, like I said above, aside from the doctrinal differences, how do Catholics practically understand this “infused righteousness” different than the Calvinist’s “imputed righteousntess?”

It sounds from this quote that you do believe that your soul has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit who makes his home (indwells) within you.

If that is the case it sounds to me as though you believe in actual regeneration rather than merely imputed righteousness. Otherwise, if your soul were not truly sanctified, the Holy Spirit could not live within you. Catholics would call that sanctifying grace.

JimG

 

[Pax]

You sound much more Catholic than you do Calvinist. I realize that there are variations on Calvin. I don’t think a strict five point Calvinist would say all of the things you’ve mentioned.

I think Catholics will often pray similarly. Our expressions and vocabulary probably differ but much of it overlaps.

As a Catholic, I begin my prayers asking for God’s mercy and give thanks for all that He has done for me. I praise God for his lavish gifts of creation and redemption. I especially thank Him for the gift of Jesus precious body and blood in the Eucharist. Beyond that I will pray for specific things such as the end to abortion, peace in the world, and the myriad of intentions that arise. I usually end my prayers again in thanksgiving and in asking for the Holy Spirit and God’s generous gift of grace.

 

[Reformed_Rob]

JimG:

It sounds from this quote that you do believe that your soul has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit who makes his home (indwells) within you.

If that is the case it sounds to me as though you believe in actual regeneration rather than merely imputed righteousness. Otherwise, if your soul were not truly sanctified, the Holy Spirit could not live within you. Catholics would call that sanctifying grace.

JimG

Jim,

This is one point where the doctrinal differences get somewhat ambiguous. For an excellent treatment of the Reformed doctrine of Justification, I would recommend the book by John Murray “Redemption Accomplished and Applied.” It’s about 180 pages and he does an excellent job of outlining, point by point, Christ’s accomplishing of Redemption for His elect, and it’s application to them in time. Rather than go into detail, because this is not the post for that, let it suffice to say, that regeneration, in the Reformed sense, is the act of God making a person who is called to Christ able and eager to answer that call. This isn’t like the predominant Evangelical or typical Protestant message, it has at it’s heart man’s hatred towards God and God’s giving them the new heart to love Him. Some Scriptures:
John 3 & 6:44,65
Exekiel 36:26
Romans 8:8

In Murray’s words, which contain the same idea as the Westminster Confession of Faith, “God’s call, since it is effectual, carries with it the operative grace whereby the person called is enabled to answer the call and to embrace Jesus Christ as He is freely offered in the Gospel. … And that grace is the grace of regeneration.”

There’s a reason for the anathemas of Trent! The Reformed doctrine is different and flies in the face of the Catholic doctrine.

This discussion has been helpful, thanks. Please, keep giving me more insight.

 

[csr]

Reformed Rob:

…I pray to the effect that I know God has given me faith and delivered me from my sins,…

God has delivered you from your sins? I don’t think that’s a teaching of the Church. Baptism washes away original sin and any sins committed to the point of baptism (if the catechumen is past the age of reason and is assumed to have sinned). But God only “delivers” you from your sins when you make a sincere act of contrition and then apologize in confession.

I think these apparently complicated doctrinal “differences” don’t need to be pursued. The reasons to be Catholic are clear and straightforward, and from that point one can let Catholic theology inform one’s faith. There is, in other words, no special reason to consider the similarities or differences between the two things you name. One can be Catholic because that is the true faith, and one can learn the faith from Catholicism. This is the best course because it avoids the need to learn a lot of strange vocabulary in some other religion. Why would I learn about Jesus from Islam, for example? Why would I assume that Islam can teach me about Our Lord? Or about salvation? They say things using some of the same vocabulary and refer to some of the same persons, but why should I invest any time in it?