Prayer

[Greg_McPherran]

Hello,

I have some questions regarding prayer. I find I am often not attracted to prayer. It always seems like a chore and I rarely look forward to doing it. As a professional, my instinct is that we have to work to get things accomplished. My hope is that by understanding prayer, I will see it as a more valuable use of time.

1. Can we have an experience of God that we know for sure is God? What was the experience like for the apostles when they received the Holy Spirit?
2. If we know we have to work, then why is prayer needed? E.g. we cannot just pray to mow our lawn, we have to do it ourselves. It would seem prayer has no impact on actually getting any daily work done.
3. Is there any way to prove that prayer does anything? How do we know it’s not all wishful thinking and our imagination?
4. Why would Jesus pray to the Father? The Father already lives in Him?
5. Is there any scriptural basis for prayer to saints?
6. Why would I ever prefer a prayer to a saint instead of to God?

Thank You,
Greg

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Greg_McPherran:

Hello,

Howdy!!

1. Can we have an experience of God that we know for sure is God? What was the experience like for the apostles when they received the Holy Spirit?

When they first received the holy Sprit scripture doesn’t mention any reaction of the apostles (John 20:22). Later, at Pentecost, the apostles spoke in other languages and were emboldened to preach the gospel. I think it’s important to realize that experiences of the holy Spirit are individual and may or may not involve feelings. We can’t really measure our experience against anyone else’s.

1. If we know we have to work, then why is prayer needed? E.g. we cannot just pray to mow our lawn, we have to do it ourselves. It would seem prayer has no impact on actually getting any daily work done.

Prayer is to change us, to draw us closer to God so that we can be more perfectly formed into his image and likeness.

1. Is there any way to prove that prayer does anything? How do we know it’s not all wishful thinking and our imagination?

God tells us it’s real in his word. God wouldn’t exhort us to prayer if it was nothing more than wishful thinking. The power of prayer is also proven through experience.

1. Why would Jesus pray to the Father? The Father already lives in Him?

God prayed to the Father when he was still fully human with human weaknesses. Jesus surely didn’t do anything unnecessary of pointless. His example tells us that in our human weakness we can turn to God for strength, trusting in His providence. Notice in the garden Jesus told God what HE would like, but then submitted to God’s will. That’s how our prayers are most effective. When we don’t tell God how to answer our prayers, but rather to submit our wills to His.

1. Is there any scriptural basis for prayer to saints?

Since prayer to saints is nothing more than prayer requests, look in Paul’s epistles. He highly regarded intercessory prayer.

1. Why would I ever prefer a prayer to a saint instead of to God?

You wouldn’t. Prayer to God and prayer to those in heaven are two totally different things. Same word, different meaning. Webster gives these definitions:

1 : to make a request in a humble manner
2 : to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

The #1 kind is the kind addressed to saints in heaven. For example, if you had a son who didn’t know the Lord you might pray to St. Monica and say “St. Monica, you prayed for 15 years for your son to come to the Lord and he did. Please pray for my son that he too will come to know the Lord”.

The #2 kind is the kind addressed to God. We wouldn’t ask God to pray for us, as we would a Saint. The #2 kind is worship. The #1 kind is a prayer request.

The term “pray to” throws people off.

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[Greg_McPherran]

Thank you Nancy. Very good insights that are helpful.

So, Jesus’ prayers were only for example to us and He was not really requesting anything of God or talking to God for a purpose?

Plus it would seem that for Him to talk to God would be talking to Himself.

Greg

 

[Mamamull]

Sincerely, and I hope you will take this lovingly offered thought:

It is not wise to tell God that you need something special for you to believe that what he asks is reasonable.

Kist contemplate that if the Lord stopped thinking about you, you would cease to exist. Maybe that could make you humble enough to learn to pray.

Doubts and questions such as those you posed are the opposite of FAITH.

Faith is accepting the truth and not needing the proof.

We have all had our doubts, but we have all turned from them and embraced the incredible love of our Lord.

One final thing, when I am in mortal sin, I can not feel God. I like to equate myself with a radio that has no antenna then. I just don’t the sense of His presence and love. I can’t tell that my prayers go anywhere. I am in a lonely place.

Confession is the balm for my isolated soul. I then can once again feel the Lord’s presence.

Try reading Brother Lawrence’s book " Practicing the Presence of Christ" my non-Catholic brother found it to be profound…

Or get The Way by St. Josemaria Escriva who founded Opus Dei – the work of God. great little book that can fit in a pocket. It is jammed packed full of many helpful thoughts.

May you become humble before our Lord decides to address that issue for you.

AMDG,
Mamamull

 

[davidv]

Greg_McPherran:

Thank you Nancy. Very good insights that are helpful.

So, Jesus’ prayers were only for example to us and He was not really requesting anything of God or talking to God for a purpose?

Plus it would seem that for Him to talk to God would be talking to Himself.

Greg

Since Jesus had a human nature his prayers were much more that just examples for us. He physically and emotionally experienced life the way we do. In his human nature he called out to His father, and found the answers he needed to fulfill his call, to be fully obedient to the Father in securing our salvation.

 

[Greg_McPherran]

Mamamull:

May you become humble before our Lord decides to address that issue for you.

You answered none of my questions.

 

[Greg_McPherran]

Thank You David,

davidv:

He physically and emotionally experienced life the way we do. In his human nature he called out to His father, and found the answers he needed to fulfill his call, to be fully obedient to the Father in securing our salvation.

I don’t understand that because He is God and man. Being God, why would He need to pray at all?

Greg

 

[Pax]

Greg,

I believe it was Rosalyn Moss that suggested the following:

If you really want to know that God hears your prayer, just offer thanks and then tell Him what a wonderful Son He has.

My own prayer experience has followed a pattern not unlike what you’ve expressed. For me it has been all about my relationship with God. In the beginning my relationship of prayer was still nailed to the launch pad. Love of God and total commitment to God is a choice. Once we make that choice and commit ourselves to “the relationship” of all relationships, our prayer takes on a new dimension.

Like me, and almost everyone else, you are not likely to hear the heavenly voice of the Father audibly in your ears. Instead, God will grant you gentle and loving signs that He has heard your prayers. Keep in mind, however, that you will go through dry spells. The Lord places us in dry spells, to make us hunger and thirst for more. He wants us to know Him and love Him more deeply every passing day.

While prayer isn’t easy, it can get easier. Every morning when you wake up make a simple prayer of thanksgiving for another day of life and ask God to guide you through the day. As you leave your car in the parking lot and get ready to enter your place of employment, ask the Lord for guidance and patience in your work. Do these simple, short, but worshipful prayers throughout the day. In no time, you will find these moments to be the best part of your day.

 

[davidv]

Greg_McPherran:

Thank You David,

I don’t understand that because He is God and man. Being God, why would He need to pray at all?

Greg

I don’t understand it either. That is why it is called the mystery of the incarnation. Here is a quote from the Philokalia, Vol. Four that I just read tonight.

1. Orthodoxy may be defined as the clear perception and grasp of the two dogmas of the faith, namely, the Trinity and the Duality. It is to know and contemplate the three Persons of the Trinity as distinctively and indivisibly constituting the one God, and the divine and human natures of Christ as united in His single Person - that is to say, to know and profess that the single Son, both prior and subsequent to the Incarnation, is to be glorified in two natures, divine and human, and in two wills, divine and human, the one distinct from the other.

St. Gregory of Sinai, “On Commandments and Doctrines”​

 

[Greg_McPherran]

Hello Pax,

Pax:

Instead, God will grant you gentle and loving signs that He has heard your prayers. Keep in mind, however, that you will go through dry spells.

Yes, I think I have experienced that. I have also had some experiences of faith and was convinced and very grateful that my prayers were answered. I am not sure what’s going wrong with me these days but I think it has to do with some issues I have experienced - actually you know about those.

Thank You Pax,
Greg

 

[BLB_Oregon]

Greg_McPherran:

Thank You David,

I don’t understand that because He is God and man. Being God, why would He need to pray at all?

Greg

Because He chose to empty Himself to take on our humanity. At that point, prayer also became the very nature of Jesus. Only a man who knew himself to be utterly dependent upon God, who was always innocently in pursuit of the Will of God, and who constantly accepted the gift of being in union with God could possibly be God and man simulaneously. That is not accomplished without prayer. To be obedient, you have to listen. That means opening your ears and waiting to know the entirety what is being said before you start deciding what your answer is going to be.

Prayer is how we cultivate the consciousness of what our situation really is. You say that after you pray, you still have to go do it yourself? But when you pray, you come away realizing the truth: you do nothing yourself, you have nothing of yourself. Everything is a gift, we are in every way dependent upon God, and in everything He loves us. How can we live as we ought, when we are so prone to forget that? Prayer keeps us in reality.

Saying prayers and being prayerful are not the same thing. We take on the discipline of the former in the hope that we will be opened to the miraculous gift that is the latter.

 

[newby]

Greg,

For a long time, my prayer life seemed very dry. I had trouble praying and it seemed pointless. Then I started reading the bible with the daily readings, only took about 15 minutes tops. Gave me a much greater feeling of God in my life.

Next I started saying the rosary on my commute to work in the morning. What happenned there was, much less road rage when drivers made me less than happy! Hard to act poorly toward someone else when you are saying the rosary!

About 2 months ago, I began to pray the liturgy of the hours, morning and evening prayer…boy, what a rush! I feel that I have really connected with God! Setting aside time and doing it regularly will help you hear how God is talking to you.

Remember Jesus says to “ask and you will receive”

Bless you

 

[Greg_McPherran]

BLB_Oregon:

Because He chose to empty Himself to take on our humanity. At that point, prayer also became the very nature of Jesus. Only a man who knew himself to be utterly dependent upon God, who was always innocently in pursuit of the Will of God, and who constantly accepted the gift of being in union with God could possibly be God and man simulaneously. That is not accomplished without prayer. To be obedient, you have to listen. That means opening your ears and waiting to know the entirety what is being said before you start deciding what your answer is going to be.

Insightful and helpful.

Thank You

 

[Greg_McPherran]

newby:

Hard to act poorly toward someone else when you are saying the rosary!

About 2 months ago, I began to pray the liturgy of the hours, morning and evening prayer…boy, what a rush! I feel that I have really connected with God! Setting aside time and doing it regularly will help you hear how God is talking to you.

Remember Jesus says to “ask and you will receive”

Very kind and helpful, thank you newby.

 

[Didi]

Greg –

You’ve received some great insights already. Just wanted to share a couple of them I have been learning lately.

There are different types of prayer. Seems as though, in your questions, you are addressing mostly intercessory prayer, or asking God for something, which is a perfectly acceptable type of prayer. What we have to remember, though, is that God will not grant us something if it’s not good for us, so we must always finish these type of prayers with “Thy will be done.”

There are prayers of praise and adoration, which are reserved only for God, not for the saints. We pray these in the Mass – the Gloria, the Holy, Holy, etc. God is worthy of our praise.

There are prayers of reparation – asking God for his forgiveness and mercy for ourselves and for others. The Chaplet of Divine Mercy is such a prayer, as is the Lamb of God.

There are also prayers of thanksgiving. These are the ones I’m not always so good at. I’m great at asking for His help and intervention, but fall short on remembering to thank Him when I receive it.

There is also meditative prayer, formal prayer, spontaneous prayer, and silent prayer (just being in the presence of God).

They are all forms of communication. Sometimes we simply sit down with God and share our day with Him, our frustrations, our worries, our joys, our sorrows. In order to have a relationship with anyone, we must communicate with them. So it is for God. He already knows our needs, our wants, our worries, etc., but He wants us to bring them to Him.

We can also make our whole day a prayer to God – offer Him our work, prayers, joys and sufferings. Praying the Morning Offering has been very helpful to me.

Hope some of this helps! Persevere in prayer. It has been a struggle for me at times, and sometimes still is, but I pray anyway because I know God will shower me with graces even when I’m not aware of them.

God bless!

 

[Greg_McPherran]

Thank you Didi.

Someone said prayers to the saints are prayers of request. If we can also request directly to God for something then why would we not always pray to God instead of ever praying to the saints?

Greg

 

[puzzleannie]

Why wouldn’t Jesus have a conversation with His Father? What kind of son would He be if He never thanked His Father, acknowledged Him, praised Him, asked Him for good things for His people, talked to Him, and as a True human, pleaded with Him during His agony and Passion?

Prayers to the saints are requests for them to join in our own petitions and conversations with God. If I go to the Sticky Prayer Requests and ask all of you to join with me in praying to God for my son’s return to the Church, my daughter’s safe pregnancy and delivery of a healthy child, my own health, why should I not also ask any or all of the saints to join in these prayers with me? We are all part of the same Church, the same Body of Christ, the same family with God as our Father, should I not ask my family for help and support?

Sure prayer is a duty. It is my duty as a wife and mother to talk to and listen to my husband and children, to share my faith, struggles, life with them, to ask them for help and support, to listen to their needs for help and support. What kind of family life would we have if no one ever talked to each other on a level deeper than “Mom, do I have any clean sox?” and “Honey, bring me another beer while you’re up?”

 

[jrabs]

newby:

Greg,

For a long time, my prayer life seemed very dry. I had trouble praying and it seemed pointless. Then I started reading the bible with the daily readings, only took about 15 minutes tops. Gave me a much greater feeling of God in my life.

Next I started saying the rosary on my commute to work in the morning. What happenned there was, much less road rage when drivers made me less than happy! Hard to act poorly toward someone else when you are saying the rosary!

About 2 months ago, I began to pray the liturgy of the hours, morning and evening prayer…boy, what a rush! I feel that I have really connected with God! Setting aside time and doing it regularly will help you hear how God is talking to you.

Remember Jesus says to “ask and you will receive”

Bless you

Newby,
Thanks for your insightful post. I too, found that each time I added a bit more prayer to my life, like the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, or praying on the drive to work instead of listening to the radio, God would abundantly bless me.

As I give more pray time to Him in prayer, He seems to multiply my time and give me more time to accomplish what I need to do. Like the multiplying of the fishes and loaves miracle.

I also started praying that God speak to me clearly, so I can understand his will for me. That has been a wonderful experience. This has really helped me hear God better in my heart.

One more step happened recently. God asked me to stop praying for myself and focus only on others. Once I did that, I have been more blessed than I can begin to tell you.

God is great and that is confitrmation to me that he does hear our prayers - even when they are quick, “Thanks Jesus, I love you” type prayers.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Greg, other posters have mentioned that, in periods of spiritual dryness and difficulty in prayer, that they have found much worth in St. John of the Cross’s “The Dark Night of the Soul.”

So I would recommend that you check it out.
P.S. I will say a decade of the rosary right now for you as well.
God bless.

 

[Greg_McPherran]

Very helpful and most grateful to all. I seek to understand further about praying to saints. I think the objection about the OT law of not communicationg to the dead has been discussed many times (whether here on CA or elsewhere). So bear with me.

Is there any Scriptural basis for praying to saints?

Even given that praying to saints is good, is it possible we emphasized it because Roman pagan converts were accustomed to praying to different gods? We do know that Christianity has transformed many cultures while keeping some of their forms (e.g. Christmas tree).

Thank You,
Greg