Prayers needed for my ex-girlfriend

[holycross78]

I would like to ask for some prayers for my ex-girlfriend. She is Christian (non- demonational) and has questions about our faith. I feel she might be willing to learn about the Catholic faith. She agreed to come to 1 rcia meeting next wednesday.

(I’ve been Catholic my whole life and need help explaining the faith to my friend).

Here are the main points she is having trouble with:

Bible and Tradition

I understand that it’s good to seek others help in interpreting scripture, but it seems that the additional texts used in the Catholic Church have gained the same status as the bible instead of simply being used to further support/understand the Bible.

Mary

Although I agree with the honor that was given to Mary in the bible of bearing Jesus as a baby, the Bible does not support the additional beliefs and honors given to her - that Jesus was her only son (Matthew 13:55), her sinlessness, praying to Mary or through Mary, that Mary would pray for us, that she was greater than others, that we should sing to, bow to or kiss any pictures/statues of Mary.

The Pope

Jesus is the only mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5), yet the Catholic Church places the Pope as the representative to God for the church.

Confession / Priests

No priest has the power to forgive sins. In fact the Bible does not teach about priests or that they have been granted God’s power, it actually states that all Christians are considered as part of the priesthood, a chosen people (1 Peter 2:9). The Bible states that we can ask God for forgiveness directly, no need to go through a priest.

Prayer/Rituals

There are many ritualistic actions that Catholics take part in – from the repeated prayers, signs of cross, bowing, etc. – all seem to be for outward symbols. I don’t understand how it brings you closer to God, versus just something that is done out of habit.

Baptism

The Bible states that this is an outward sign of salvation, which is a conscious act by an individual. It’s a much different interpretation in the Catholic Church to have a child baptized when they cannot make that commitment or have understanding of salvation.

Eucharist

The interpretation that I hold to from the Bible is that the bread and the wine are symbols of Christ and the sacrifice He performed on the cross. Jesus often spoke in parables and symbols, and it would be inconsistent to not interpret this the same way. I do believe that in taking communion we are remembering the sacrifice and following his commandments.

All your prayers are welcomed!

 

[Kilo1Mike21]

Praying for your intentions….

Lord Jesus, You have said,
“Learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart.”
With confidence in Your loving heart
which offers rest to weary souls,
we come to You in this time of special need.
In Your unfailing love,
read the prayer that is written on our hearts,
and grant the grace that we ask of You,
in accordance with Your holy will.
In Your name we pray.
Amen.

 

[DanWelshiMac]

**I will pray for you and her, but you need
to ask an apologist her questions…
Praying!
✞ Dan
**

 

[ctkrcia]

holycross78 - Your girlfriend is right where she needs to be. The first phase of RCIA is Inquiry. Be sure and stress to anyone who asks that she is there exactly for that purpose - inquiry. She is not there to become Catholic…yet. She has questions and this forum is designed exactly for people like her and for those seeking full communion with the church.

While she has agreed to go to one class, please encourage her to attend all the Inquiry classes, which will depend on the format the class uses. In my class, Inquiry lasts from the first class until about Advent.

Encourage her to ask questions charitably. The only way she can get answers to her specific concerns is to ask direct questions. If she is uncomfortable doing that in the class, ask for a private meeting with the teacher or parish priest. Sometimes meeting with the teacher is much less intimidating that meeting with a priest.

But you are on the right track. Right now what is needed is prayers for the Holy Spirit to guide her. She will be included in my prayers just for that purpose. You also need prayers for patience and understanding. Many things in Catholicism are very different to those from other faith traditions. It may take several years for her eyes to be opened to possibilities other than what she has been taught for years. I know this firsthand as my wife of 31 years is not Catholic…but I continue to pray for her daily to be open to the teachings of the Catholic church.

 

[244Rocket]

Praying.

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

I would like to ask for some prayers for my ex-girlfriend. She is Christian (non- demonational) and has questions about our faith. I feel she might be willing to learn about the Catholic faith. She agreed to come to 1 rcia meeting next wednesday.

(I’ve been Catholic my whole life and need help explaining the faith to my friend).

Here are the main points she is having trouble with:

Bible and Tradition

I understand that it’s good to seek others help in interpreting scripture, but it seems that the additional texts used in the Catholic Church have gained the same status as the bible instead of simply being used to further support/understand the Bible.

Ask her where the Bible cam from (the Authority of the Catholic Church), what the Bible is fundamentally (A collection of CATHOLIC writings by Catholics, to Catholics to be disseminated among any of the faithful), and WHEN it was compiled (see HERE for more information)

Mary

Although I agree with the honor that was given to Mary in the bible of bearing Jesus as a baby, the Bible does not support the additional beliefs and honors given to her - that Jesus was her only son (Matthew 13:55), her sinlessness, praying to Mary or through Mary, that Mary would pray for us, that she was greater than others, that we should sing to, bow to or kiss any pictures/statues of Mary.

The Catholic Church accepts three types of veneration/worship which the protestant faiths have lost: Latria (the worship due to God alone), Dulia (veneration of people who epitomize holiness), and hyperdulia (veneration of Mary in reverence for her singular role as the perpetually virginal mother of our Lord and Savior, the Theotokos).

To help her understand, as a beginning to the conversation, show her the Catechism and ask her to find the section on the Blessed Virgin Mary (there isnt one) then ask her to find the paragraphs that deal explicitly with our blessed mother (I think there are 4 or 5 out of 2865 paragraphs).

The Pope

Jesus is the only mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5), yet the Catholic Church places the Pope as the representative to God for the church.

This is a bit touchier for protestants who have grown up with the attitude that they have to follow whatever their personal interpretation of the scriptures will be/is and having the option to just find some preacher who teaches what they already believe, as opposed to having to bend your will and understanding to what the apostles taught through word or writing as we must do as Catholics.

Start here or here (for slightly easier reading)

Confession / Priests

No priest has the power to forgive sins. In fact the Bible does not teach about priests or that they have been granted God’s power, it actually states that all Christians are considered as part of the priesthood, a chosen people (1 Peter 2:9). The Bible states that we can ask God for forgiveness directly, no need to go through a priest.

The bible also gives but one assurance that our sins will be forgiven while still on earth: John 20:23 “If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Again, this is just a start, if you check the faith tracts on catholic.com you will find far more information. Also check around at the newadvent.org links i gave above.

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

Prayer/Rituals

There are many ritualistic actions that Catholics take part in – from the repeated prayers, signs of cross, bowing, etc. – all seem to be for outward symbols. I don’t understand how it brings you closer to God, versus just something that is done out of habit.

This is one that you will likely have to find out for yourself. I.E. Find out what it means and does for your heart, soul, and relationship with God to spend more time in prayer.

For me, the “repetitive” prayer acts like the dotted lines on a highway and allow me to continue to focus on God. I have a tendency to wander in thought when praying, lose my train of thought and to just be generally selfish. Prayer is prayer however, and whatever works for the individual in this case is acceptable. The important thing is that people commune with God daily through prayer.

See here for more of this: “28. I mentioned in my Apostolic Letter Novo Millennio Ineunte that the West is now experiencing a renewed demand for meditation, which at times leads to a keen interest in aspects of other religions.35 Some Christians, limited in their knowledge of the Christian contemplative tradition, are attracted by those forms of prayer. While the latter contain many elements which are positive and at times compatible with Christian experience, they are often based on ultimately unacceptable premises. Much in vogue among these approaches are methods aimed at attaining a high level of spiritual concentration by using techniques of a psychophysical, repetitive and symbolic nature. The Rosary is situated within this broad gamut of religious phenomena, but it is distinguished by characteristics of its own which correspond to specifically Christian requirements.”

Baptism

The Bible states that this is an outward sign of salvation, which is a conscious act by an individual. It’s a much different interpretation in the Catholic Church to have a child baptized when they cannot make that commitment or have understanding of salvation.

Again I send you to newadvent for deep reading and catholic.com for slightly plainer reading HERE and HERE

Eucharist

The interpretation that I hold to from the Bible is that the bread and the wine are symbols of Christ and the sacrifice He performed on the cross. Jesus often spoke in parables and symbols, and it would be inconsistent to not interpret this the same way. I do believe that in taking communion we are remembering the sacrifice and following his commandments.

This could be (and has been) the subject of entire theological volumes. I would suggest you get Scott Hahn’s book “The Lambs Supper”, check out the faith tracts here, and begin with John chapter 6. If you have a good bible commentary (Dom Orchards “a Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture” for instance [out of print but available on Lulu or at used book sellers]) you can begin to see the necessity of Christ’s institution of the Eucharist in the Catholic and Orthodox understanding of what that is in light of the old testament and also its efficacy in granting us access to Him through the blood… I wont go farther with this because it is such a beautiful thing to discover versus to be told.

All your prayers are welcomed!

Will be praying…

 

[runningdude]

To holycross78
While she has agreed to go to one class, please encourage her to attend all the Inquiry classes, which will depend on the format the class uses. In my class, Inquiry lasts from the first class until about Advent.

I second this. Don’t try to answer everything in one sitting. It would likely overwhelm her (I’ve had similar discussion with my ex…).

 

[frangalvez]

Praying that the Holy Spirit fosters her curiosity and grants enlightenment

 

[WoundedIcon]

1. This is the clincher, and once this is accepted all the other things start falling into place. Help her to understand that the Bible was written by a church that already existed and did not precede it. All the things in Scripture were already believed by word of mouth (oral tradition) and other non-Biblical letters before being stated in the form we have them in the New Testament. Catholics simply believe that some of those things weren’t written down in those books, but due to all of it coming from the apostles we trust it all. Perhaps show her, to begin with, where the deuterocanonical books are referenced and alluded to in the NT so that she can see that the Bible cannot be fully understood without them. That way maybe she’ll begin to accept our form of the Bible. Also tell her that, historically speaking, a one volume collection of all the works in our Bible was not fully compiled until several centuries later and that it took deliberation on behalf of the (easily proven to be) Catholics to determine what stays and what goes. The best that could happen is that she accepts that fact. The worst is that she denies it without looking into it or loses faith in the Bible because we had something to do with it LOL. Show her the writings of Polycarp, Ignatius, and Clement. Show her references from them about bishops and the Real Presence from before Constantine was ever born. Maybe the letter of Clement to the Corinthians would help, it would give her a connecting-point to Scripture. Also, find the part in the Bible where Jesus states that the Jewish Oral Tradition of Moses’ Seat has authority. That way you can break the ice about our Tradition not being a new concept. Also, the references to the disputation over Moses’ body and the prophecy of Enoch in Jude come from Jewish Oral Tradition, as well as the names of the sorcerers Jannes and Jambres. She’ll see that the apostles respected traditions that were valid, especially since at their hands they became part of Biblical truth. “Hold fast to the traditions handed down to you - whether by word or by letter.”
2. Once you get traditions down you’ll be able to show from history that second temple Jews actually asked for intercession from departed ancestors. Especially since in the deuterocanon there is a reference from even before the time of Christ to a vision of Jeremiah praying for the well being of the Jews. Also mention that the Greek text of Gabriel’s salutation in the NT uses a term that basically means a person who has been and currently is continuing to be completely filled with God’s grace. As a Protestant she would understand that grace is the power that makes us holy, so to be completely filled with it would be in essence sinlessness. The issue of other children is a bigger one, I would research the “until she had her firstborn” passage and the wider Judaic/Greek meaning of the terms used for brothers in the Gospels. Not to mention they could logically just be step-siblings because Joseph seemed to be much older considering the fact he disappears rather quickly in the Gospels. Oh, and if she had other children they would have to be younger than Jesus, and they still would have been alive at the crucifixion, so why did Jesus have to entrust Mary to John’s care? Ask her that. And with veneration we’re basically doing something akin to kissing a picture of a boyfriend, not attributing any divinity to the image. We just see Mary as an amazingly blessed woman and an example of a great Christian whom God rewarded richly.
3. Yes and no, we don’t have to go through the Pope to pray or anything. But it’s a governmental thing that helps keep unity, albeit divinely instituted. And remember, Jesus is the only mediator in the sense of an offering to clear our sins out of the way and reunite us. You should show her how much Peter speaks for the other apostles and how much he’s mentioned, even being pointed out as “the first” in one verse.
4. One, it’s not necessary for all sins for us to go to a priest. Only major ones. Two, we’re also called kings but it doesn’t give us governmental powers. Logical conclusion of the interpretation would mean that we don’t need government either. John 20:22-23 “When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.” We believe this right is handed down through the laying on of hands mentioned in the letters to Timothy.
5. Symbols are like art, they represent greater truths and express them in a way words cannot. It’s terrible that some Catholics lose sight of their beauty, but it’s not the normative manner of functioning for these things. Besides, the Sinner’s Prayer and daily Bible reading and instrumental music at services weren’t things done in the early days of the Church either. Plus, Jesus himself instituted many rituals and motions in the OT, so He doesn’t have a problem with them.
6. Jesus would see no problem, having sealed week old newborns into the Mosaic Covenant by commanding circumcision. The principle itself is fine.)
7. He also freaked many of His followers out in John’s gospel by insisting that they won’t truly live unless they eat Him. He never tried to correct their understanding as they left because they understood Him quite well. I would say that since Paul says God could kill us for abusing the bread and wine and not “discerning Christ’s body” that there is way more to it than a memorial. God wouldn’t punish so severely over wheat and grapes.

All your prayers are welcomed!

I will be praying.

 

[St_Gabriel]

Praying that she will convert …

 

[holycross78]

Thanks to everyone who posted. The wealth of information is great. I truely appericate it.

I will keep you posted as to how this journey goes.

Thanks,
holycross78