Pre-Trib Rapture Rationale

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Little_Mary

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I recently discussed this subject with a non-denominational friend of mine (a member of the “invisible church of all true believers”). I was unable to respond to he reasoning.

He stated that he believes in the pre-trib rapture because, in the bible, Noah and his family, for example, was removed from harm before God sent the flood. In the same way, Christians will be removed (raptured) before the tribulation.

Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks.

P.S. He also had some fascinating ideas about the Eucharist, which I’ve posted in the Sacraments forum under the title, “Eucharist Once a Year?” if interested. Thanks.
 
Little Mary,

Were the Jews in “pre-slavery” spared salvery or did they have to endure it in Egypt? Were the Jews and Catholics spared NAZI gas champers or did they have to endure it? (3.5 Mil Catholics died in NAZI camps too!) I know of many Christians that died horrible death by suffering for their "F"aith. Just because Noah was chosen to build an Ark does’nt mean all Christians will have it easy. Jesus never promised being a Christian would be all roses and smiles and vegetarian meals and singing and danceing and wine drinking, etc.

I don’t see what his point about Noah has to do with anything at all. God saved Noah from a flood, so what. Does that mean God has to work the same pattern everytime or is He free to act as He chooses?

Here is a fact I do know, if you endure in "F"aith unto the end then Jesus has promised He will grant us Gods saving grace at our judgement. Salvation can and has been lost. People even with faith in Jesus have been lost.

Nobody knows when the rapture will come so who cares. Many have thought they did and ALL were proven wrong. Ignore the rapture and just concentrate on enduring to the end!

Hopefully someone else can give you more help for the next time you talk to your freind.

Good luck
 
First off, I certainly believe in the rapture of the church. Because the scriptures DO teach that the church will be “caught up” to meet the Lord in the air. Where I disagree though, is that it will be silent and invisible. Do you remember the last time you heard a trumpet blow? Pretty loud eh? Also Matt 24:29-31 says the angels will gather the elect from the four corners of the earth AFTER the trib. Imagine graves opening up and loads of angels everywhere. Hardly an invisible sight.
 
What Will Happen Upon Christ’s Return?
  1. The world will immediately be judged. Matthew 24:29-31, 25:31-46.
a. There is no hint of a pretribulation rapture of the righteous. Christ returns in glory and “all nations” are judged.

b. Once the judgment is complete, the wicked “will go away to eternal punishment, and the upright to eternal life.”
  1. The righteous dead will be raised to life. The righteous living will join the new raised saints to live with Jesus Christ for eternity. 1 Corinthians 15:35-53, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
  2. The unrighteous will be suffer God’s final judgement. Matthew 24:45-51, Matthew 25.
a. In each parable, the returning master or bridegroom is Jesus Christ. In each parable, it is emphasized that no one knows when the master or bridegroom will return.

b. All three parables end the same way. The master or bridegroom returns. The unaware (meaning the wicked) are thrown out or cut off, meaning they have earned their place in Hell. The aware (meaning the righteous) receive their rewards.
  1. The heavens and the earth will be destroyed. All of creation will be made new, and the righteous will live in perfect happiness with God. 2 Peter 3:3-10, Revelation 21, 22.
“Belief is a Pretribulational Rapture contradicts all three chapters in the New Testament that mention the Tribulation and the Rapture together (Mark 13:24-27; Matt. 24:26-31; 2 Thess. 2:1-12). The theory is so biblically bankrupt that the usual defense is made using three passages that do not even mention a Tribulation (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17; 1 Cor. 15:52). These are important passages, but they have not had one word to say about a Pretribulational Rapture. The score is 3 to 0, three passages for a Post-tribulational Rapture and three that say nothing on the subject.” Dale Moody, The Word of Truth, 556-557.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
You mean the Left Behind movie and novels aren’t true?

Aw shucks I want a refund I have been dealt lies that cost me quite a lot the dvd’s hardcover books, comic books for kids, action figures.
My Left Behing Calender marking out the days till the rapture.
 
Actually, what your friend stated contradicts the entire rapture concept! Noah was not swept away into heaven, he was left on earth! The rapture concept states that all the “saved” will be swept to heaven and the sinners left behind and given another chance.

There is a great book, “The Rapture Trap” by Paul Thigpen (spelling?) that states this contradiction and debunks all the rapture hype.
 
Catholics reject the notion of pre tribulation rapture. What we believe is contained in our Nicene Creed. “He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.” We believe rapture in the context of the second coming of Christ. “On Judgment Day at the end of the world, Christ will come in glory to achieve the definitive triumph of good over evil which, like the wheat and the tares, have grown up together in the course of history” CCC 681 Any other explanation is not Catholic and should be avoided.
 
One thing I noticed with the rapture movies the dead don’t rise first. That’s a glaring ommision. THey focus on getting out of here as to not to suffer but forget the scneario in the Bible the dead rise first, those alive are taken up and then comes the judgement of course catholics beleive this pretty much happens at once during the second coming and not some long drawn out 7 year scenario.
 
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Didi:
Actually, what your friend stated contradicts the entire rapture concept! Noah was not swept away into heaven, he was left on earth! The rapture concept states that all the “saved” will be swept to heaven and the sinners left behind and given another chance.

There is a great book, “The Rapture Trap” by Paul Thigpen (spelling?) that states this contradiction and debunks all the rapture hype.
Noah was not swept away, but my friend’s point was that Noah was removed from harm’s way before the floods…compared to the rapture belief, the “saved” will be removed from harm’s way before the tribulation. His opinion, not mine. I usually use your argument - that Noah was left on earth (left behind) and the sinners were swept away but before I could open my mouth he posed his point of view and I was caught off guard.

Thanks for the book reference - I’ll look into it.
 
Thanks for all your replys so far. I’m also reviewing my audio tape by John Martignoni regarding this subject. I’ll be contacting my friend soon.

BTW - check out his views on the Eucharist in the Sacraments forum under “Eucharist only once a year?”

Thanks
 
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mlchance:
“Belief is a Pretribulational Rapture contradicts all three chapters in the New Testament that mention the Tribulation and the Rapture together (Mark 13:24-27; Matt. 24:26-31; 2 Thess. 2:1-12). The theory is so biblically bankrupt that the usual defense is made using three passages that do not even mention a Tribulation (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17; 1 Cor. 15:52). These are important passages, but they have not had one word to say about a Pretribulational Rapture. The score is 3 to 0, three passages for a Post-tribulational Rapture and three that say nothing on the subject.” Dale Moody, The Word of Truth, 556-557.

– Mark L. Chance.
Very helpful. Thanks Mark.
 
Little Mary:
Very helpful. Thanks Mark.
You’re quite welcome.

Back in my salad days, when I was a Baptist Sunday school teacher, I taught a series of classes on why pre-trib theology is not scripturally sound. Overall, the class went fairly well. I don’t know if I changed anyone’s mind, but I certainly gave more than a few assumptions a vigorous work-out.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
On the pre-trib rapture, one might ask just why the myriad saints in the Catholic Church for the first couple of centuries weren’t raptured instead of being subjected to all sorts of death-by-torture. Wouldn’t that have gotten the attention of the Romans?
 
I believe in getting into hot water; it keeps you clean
Is that what it is Exporter? I should remember that next time I get beat up.😃 But I like the quote.
 
Little Mary:
Noah was not swept away, but my friend’s point was that Noah was removed from harm’s way before the floods…compared to the rapture belief, the “saved” will be removed from harm’s way before the tribulation. His opinion, not mine. I usually use your argument - that Noah was left on earth (left behind) and the sinners were swept away but before I could open my mouth he posed his point of view and I was caught off guard.
**
2 Peter 3
5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that (1) by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was (2) formed out of water and by water,
6 through which (3) the world at that time was (4) destroyed, being flooded with water.
7 But by His word (5) the present heavens and earth are being reserved for (6) fire, kept for (7) the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
**

I think this is good passage to use to clarify what Matthew 24:36-44 is saying about the second coming.

Here are the common elements to point to:
After the first judement (of water) those taken by the flood are destroyed those left behind formed a new heaven and a new earth.
After the second judgement of fire will be a new heaven and new earth those left behind live and those taken out are destroyed both scenarios end the world as we know it.

Think of the flood did the flood take away Noah and his family and leave everyone 7 years to think about the destruction to come? No there was a single judgement at the same time the good and bad judged at once no second chances were given. Obviously the inspired writer Peter did not believe people would be saved after the second coming of the Lord! If one misses the so called rapture you still get a chance (7 years ) to get saved before another coming awaits. But that belies the context of the verse allowing for only the final coming.
 
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