Pre VII Gospels Readings

[Frankk]

Is my ageing memory correct in thinking that on Ordinary Sundays in the year pre VII there was read one Psalm (Ps 42) and the opening verses of the Gospel of John - and no other scripture readings?

I think there were Epistles, OT readings and other Gospel readings on Sundays in other seasons such as Advent, Christmas, Lent and Easter - and on specific Saints’ days??? Although, if this is right I can’t remember how many saints’ days there were either!

 

[Cider]

No, on ordinary Sundays there are epistle readings also. For example, picking up my Father Lasance missal the 4th Sunday after Pentecost the introit is psalm 26, 1,2 the epistle is Rom 8, 18-23 and the Gospel is Luke 5, 1-11.

additionally the offertory is psalm 12, 4,5 and the communion prayer is psalm 17,3

I don’t remember how many Saints days there are in the 1962.

 

[Corki]

They didn’t call it Ordinary Time. The old Missal refers to those Sundays as the Sundays after Pentecost (up to 28 of them) and the Sundays after Epiphany (6).

Just picking some weeks at random from my Missal

9th Sunday after Pentacost - Epistle ICor 10:6-13; Gospel Luke 19 41-47
10th Sunday after Pentacost - Epistle ICor 12:2-11; Gospel Luke 18:9-14

2nd Sunday after Epiphany - Epistle Romans12:6-16; Gospel John 2:1-11
3rd Sunday after Epihany - Epistle Romans 12:16-21; Gospel Matthew 8:1-13

Every Sunday had an Episle, the Gradual (from Psalms) and a particular Gospel reading.

What you are probably remembering is the Last Gospel, said after the final Blessing. It was always the beginning of the Gospel of John. This was in addition to the other particular readings.

 

[MarkThompson]

Is my ageing memory correct in thinking that on Ordinary Sundays in the year pre VII there was read one Psalm (Ps 42) and the opening verses of the Gospel of John - and no other scripture readings?

I think there were Epistles, OT readings and other Gospel readings on Sundays in other seasons such as Advent, Christmas, Lent and Easter - and on specific Saints’ days??? Although, if this is right I can’t remember how many saints’ days there were either!

Did you go to low Mass? At a low Mass the priest says the readings quietly to himself facing the altar, and although he has the option to repeat them in English for the congregation during the homily it was far from universal that priests would bother to do so. That would have made it seem like there were no readings, unless you flipped to the propers of the day in your missal to read them yourself.

Other than that, the previous answers are correct that there was an epistle and Gospel reading assigned for every Sunday, apart from Psalm 42 (in the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar) and the Last Gospel (the beginning of John, which was also supposed to be whispered quietly facing away from the congregation).

 

[ProVobis]

Is my ageing memory correct in thinking that on Ordinary Sundays in the year pre VII there was read one Psalm (Ps 42) and the opening verses of the Gospel of John - and no other scripture readings?

Don’t forget Psalm 26 which is read at the Lavabo.

 

[Frankk]

Many thanks for the feedback. Clearly, my memory is dimming!

I’ve come across some lectionary statistics which remind me that before Vatican II, the two readings were normally called “The Epistle” and “The Gospel,” since readings from the Old Testament were almost never used (except for a few special Feasts, Vigils, and Ember Days).

In fact, over the one year cycle we only ever had 1.0% of OT Readings (excluding Psalms) and 16.5% of NT Readings. Overall this means in the Liturgy, proclaiming of the Word of God was less than 5% of the total. I certainly don’t recall this shortfall being catered for by numerous Catholic Bible Study Groups - or at home, for that matter.

The situation in this regard has improved since VII with 28% now being proclaimed - but there is much being missed. Perhaps there was some truth in the Protestant claim that ‘Catholics don’t know their Bible’??

I am conscious of St Jerome’s comment that ‘Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ’.

 

[MarkThompson]

The situation in this regard has improved since VII with 28% now being proclaimed - but there is much being missed. Perhaps there was some truth in the Protestant claim that ‘Catholics don’t know their Bible’??

Google “Revised Common Lectionary” and see how many Protestant denominations have adopted our lectionary.

 

[Frankk]

A good thing, too. At least it gives some structure to the Readings. I see [mainly] Evangelical preachers who seem to pick on a passage (any passage that they feel inclined to explore) and spend an hour giving their opinion on what it means.

Although, I guess those denominations not mentioned in the Google results (thousands of them) still have arbitrary readings chosen at the whim of their pastor??

Still, I should hope the Catholic Church [or individual Catholics] would do something to ensure the >70% of the Bible not covered by the Readings is studied and reflected upon.

 

[Chatter163]

Many thanks for the feedback. Clearly, my memory is dimming!

I’ve come across some lectionary statistics which remind me that before Vatican II, the two readings were normally called “The Epistle” and “The Gospel,” since readings from the Old Testament were almost never used (except for a few special Feasts, Vigils, and Ember Days).

In fact, over the one year cycle we only ever had 1.0% of OT Readings (excluding Psalms) and 16.5% of NT Readings. Overall this means in the Liturgy, proclaiming of the Word of God was less than 5% of the total. I certainly don’t recall this shortfall being catered for by numerous Catholic Bible Study Groups - or at home, for that matter.

The situation in this regard has improved since VII with 28% now being proclaimed - but there is much being missed. Perhaps there was some truth in the Protestant claim that ‘Catholics don’t know their Bible’??

I am conscious of St Jerome’s comment that ‘Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ’.

It sounds like you are speaking of only Sunday Masses in the pre-Vatican II era. During the week, when most Masses were for saints’ days (or the dead), old testament readings occurred much more frequently.

As for the current lectionary, I used to believe that it was wonderfully helpful in exposing Catholics to more of the scripture, but I have since changed my mind. I find that most in-the-pew-type Catholics who attend Mass know scripture no better than they used to, unless they attend bible study classes or have other involvement on their own. In fact, the non-scholars may even know less, since they do not hear specific passages often enough to recall them as well as one does with a one-year cycle.

 

[MarkThompson]

It sounds like you are speaking of only Sunday Masses in the pre-Vatican II era. During the week, when most Masses were for saints’ days (or the dead), old testament readings occurred much more frequently.

I wouldn’t say that. In fact, I’d say that Old Testament readings even on saints’ days, weekdays of Advent, and so on, were still extremely rare. And a lot of feasts don’t even have proper readings anyway, meaning you’re just repeating the readings from the last Sunday. I think the Easter Vigil and the weekdays of Lent by themselves contain the bulk of what the TLM has to offer in terms of the Old Testament. The first two tables here (I think this is the page the OP was referring to) will give you a pretty good picture.

 

[Chatter163]

Actually, in the EF, most weekdays are some feast or other, even if only a minor one. If there is no feast, and a priest chooses not to celebrate a Mass for the Dead (particularly common in pre-V2 era) or a votive Mass, the Sunday Mass would indeed be resumed. But as an examination of the kalendar will reveal, most days ARE of some feast. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Roman_Calendar_of_1962

And there is no such thing as a feast without readings. All feasts, no matter how minor, have non-Sunday readings in the EF. Most use Masses from the common of Saints, of which about half have an OT reading as the first.

 

[ProVobis]

In fact, the non-scholars may even know less, since they do not hear specific passages often enough to recall them as well as one does with a one-year cycle.

Indeed. And not only that but in the PreVII Mass, often the same Psalm or part of the Epistle or Gospel is repeated in the Offertory and/or Communion. It seems redundant to some but it’s really what they call spaced repetition to remember the verses better.

 

[Frankk]

.
As for the current lectionary, I used to believe that it was wonderfully helpful in exposing Catholics to more of the scripture, but I have since changed my mind. I find that most in-the-pew-type Catholics who attend Mass know scripture no better than they used to, unless they attend bible study classes or have other involvement on their own. In fact, the non-scholars may even know less, since they do not hear specific passages often enough to recall them as well as one does with a one-year cycle.

I wholeheartedly agree - except to say the current lectionary is a massive improvement. But it does leave >70% of Scripture unexplored.

I am currently reading Lucas Grollenberg’s excellent “Rediscovering the Bible” which gives an outstanding account of the Hebrew mindset in Israel’s early history. It has been a real eye opener. Having said that it poses very significant challenges to the 21st Century Faithful and the modern psyche.