Presbyterian Church USA Defeats Motion to Care for Babies Born Alive After Abortion

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SoulSolace said:
No, it isn’t just you. I have often drawn parallels between the practice of human sacrifice and abortion.
Human sacrifice was performed to ‘appease’ the gods for health, wealth, rain, sun, or whatever the current ‘necessity’ in the culture was (as they saw it). Abortions are performed for the same reason, the gods of convenience (I don’t want a child right now), the gods of wealth (I can’t afford a child right now, OR having a child will get in the way of my career), the gods of health (so many claim health issues, and how bearing a child will negatively affect theirs) and many others.
The fact is, abortions are performed for the same illogical reasons that human sacrifices were.

God bless.
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Alhamdulillah. I couldn’t agree more. 🙂
 
What a horror show.

There is a reason why doctors are left out of this debate. There is also a really good reason why doctors feel that abortions violate their Hippocratic Oath and refuse to have anything to do with them. If you have any doubts, from a scientific point of view, in regards to the ability of a fetus to feel pain, try an embryology course in college. Study the stages of development of a fetus and learn exactly how early nervous tissue is present and attached to the developing brain.
 
CarolNoel said:
What a sad, sad Church. How can anyone still be a member.😦
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While people talk about this as a Mainline church, it absorbed most of a moderate, evangelical denomination in 1983, so it is a mostly Mainline, inheriting lots of traditional congregations. Why do so many good Christians remain, especially in more conservative areas, after decades of trouble?
  1. Each doctrinal or moral atrocity is only a little worse that the previous one. The earlier atrocities, and the gradual watering down of basic Christian belief, prepare people to accept things they never would have accepted if presented all at once. It’s easier to grumble than to change.
  2. My family has worshiped in this church for generations. My mom was married here, my daughter wants to be married here.
  3. We have had likable pastors, even after the 1983 merger. The local congregation is where Christianity lives, not some far off convention.
  4. My support for solid doctrine, as a layman or pastor, is crucial. Our presbytery could go either way, and I’m the swing vote. I can’t let down other Godly Christians in my region.
  5. We’ve put millions into this historic church, school, etc; only if we remain here can we assure that it will be put for God’s purposes.
  6. Other pastors or elders might be spiritually compromised by remaining in a compromising denomination. Not me.
 
It’s important to note that this is only “mostly mainline”. I think when orthodox Christians label a denomination “mainline” they tend to distance those problems as having little to do with them, as if the mainline churches are, and always were totally different kinds of entities, following different spiritual and political processes from other Christians. The reality is that this denomination absorbed conservative to moderate groups a few times; groups that were not then mainline, maybe now are. Even the original denomination, several decades ago, took positions that now would be considered moderate, or even conservative evangelical.

This is not an illness we are immune from, this process could also affect all kinds of Christian individuals and groups. Pray for the people in that denomination - and for ourselves, if you are not in it.
 
commenter said:
While people talk about this as a Mainline church, it absorbed most of a moderate, evangelical denomination in 1983, so it is a mostly Mainline, inheriting lots of traditional congregations. Why do so many good Christians remain, especially in more conservative areas, after decades of trouble?
  1. Each doctrinal or moral atrocity is only a little worse that the previous one. The earlier atrocities, and the gradual watering down of basic Christian belief, prepare people to accept things they never would have accepted if presented all at once. It’s easier to grumble than to change.
  2. My family has worshiped in this church for generations. My mom was married here, my daughter wants to be married here.
  3. We have had likable pastors, even after the 1983 merger. The local congregation is where Christianity lives, not some far off convention.
  4. My support for solid doctrine, as a layman or pastor, is crucial. Our presbytery could go either way, and I’m the swing vote. I can’t let down other Godly Christians in my region.
  5. We’ve put millions into this historic church, school, etc; only if we remain here can we assure that it will be put for God’s purposes.
  6. Other pastors or elders might be spiritually compromised by remaining in a compromising denomination. Not me.
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The above is from a Catholic but you quoted the above as being authored by a Presbyterian minister with no reference.
Regarding #4: the best thing the pastor could do is pack up and leave. Yes, it is a beautiful church but it is no longer Christ’s church. These recent proclaimations were not inspired by the Holy Spirit. RUN and take the Godly Presbyterians with you. They are in need of a good shephard and probably are looking to you to take them somewhere.
 
aicirt said:
The above is from a Catholic but you quoted the above as being authored by a Presbyterian minister with no reference.
Regarding #4: the best thing the pastor could do is pack up and leave. Yes, it is a beautiful church but it is no longer Christ’s church. These recent proclaimations were not inspired by the Holy Spirit. RUN and take the Godly Presbyterians with you. They are in need of a good shephard and probably are looking to you to take them somewhere.
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Sorry my earlier post might have been clearer if I had put quotations around each point. I had meant it as reflecting hypothetical, various reasons I have heard, or read, why different clergy or laity who know better, linger on in denominations, religious organizations or religious institutions long after they should have left.

I have Catholic friends who linger on in one political party which has turned almost totally against the Catholic Church, on the grounds they are “doing some good” there. I have other Catholic friends, alumni who continue contributing to a college that now has almost totally abandoned the Catholic Faith, in the ground that they got a Catholic education there 50 years ago. Change is hard, for us all.
 
Hello, my first post here.

It’s not surprising they would say such things, this group has been apostate for years.
I have a lot of friends who left this denomination and either started their own or joined more conservative Presbyterian groups.

This is what happens when the authority of scripture is denied in the life of the church. In my experience, it usually starts with little things, female ordinations, questioning the necessity of a virgin birth, creation, literal Adam and Eve, original sin etc. Eventually it ends up being a mockery of what it once was.

Just to show you how crazy these people are, they renamed the trinity the “mother, womb, daughter”.
 
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