Presuming on God's mercy?

[terri95]

I’m kind of confused about this. I’ve searched around the forums, haven’t found an answer.

Isn’t doing any sin deliberately presuming on God’s mercy? If we didn’t expect God to forgive us, we wouldn’t sin at all, would we?
Also, I read that presumption means asking for forgiveness when you aren’t repentant. Well, how repentant is repentant?

 

[Dorothy]

I’m kind of confused about this. I’ve searched around the forums, haven’t found an answer.

Isn’t doing any sin deliberately presuming on God’s mercy? If we didn’t expect God to forgive us, we wouldn’t sin at all, would we?
Also, I read that presumption means asking for forgiveness when you aren’t repentant. Well, how repentant is repentant?

We can have repentance by having imperfect contrition. By that I mean that the person wants to avoid the pains of hell, and is sorry for their sins.

We can also have repentance by having perfect contrition. By that it is meant that the person is truly sorry not because of hell, but because he/she has hurt our perfect Lord, and puts Him before the fear of hell.

 

[Carlan]

Presumption of God’s Mercy is in it’s self is a very serious sin. If you are living in mortal sin and hoping for a future chance at forgiveness you are playing with extremely hot fire that will pull you into an eternity of it. Repent and be saved now ,you could too easily wait too long.
Peace, Carlan

 

[terri95]

Presumption of God’s Mercy is in it’s self is a very serious sin. If you are living in mortal sin and hoping for a future chance at forgiveness you are playing with extremely hot fire that will pull you into an eternity of it. Repent and be saved now ,you could too easily wait too long.
Peace, Carlan

Ok, I guess my question was, doesn’t presumption of God’s mercy make all venial sins mortal sins, since when you commit a venial sin you’re presuming God’s mercy? That’s where I’m confused.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

I’m kind of confused about this. I’ve searched around the forums, haven’t found an answer.

Isn’t doing any sin deliberately presuming on God’s mercy? If we didn’t expect God to forgive us, we wouldn’t sin at all, would we?
Also, I read that presumption means asking for forgiveness when you aren’t repentant. Well, how repentant is repentant?

That isn’t technically presumption. You’re looking at things too narrowly

Presumption is when you commit a sin, “confess” that sin but have no willingness to stop. By virtue of its own nature, it means you are not being contrite, as one aspect of being contrite when you confess a sin is that you will try your best to stop committing that sin. This isn’t to say that you’ll necessarily succeed in avoiding to commit the sin, but at least in your heart you have a willingness to stop committing XYZ sin. That’s what’s most important.

For example, if you go to Confession to confess gluttony, but during Confession you have in mind that you want to commit gluttony and are going to commit gluttony anyway, then it is not a licit Confession. You lack contrition and willingness to stop committing the sin. That’s presumption of God’s mercy. It tends to affect those who believe in the “Once Saved, Always Saved” doctrine, I must add.

 

[TimothyH]

Ok, I guess my question was, doesn’t presumption of God’s mercy make all venial sins mortal sins, since when you commit a venial sin you’re presuming God’s mercy? That’s where I’m confused.

It’s one thing to commit grave sin habitually and presume that God will forgive you, or to shoot the dice, gambling that you have time before you really repent. But it is quite another to fall short and have great faith in God’s mercy and love. If you are truly repentant yet make mistakes, it is not a sin have faith that God will forgive you.

Paul himself had great faith in God’s mercy and forgiveness.

This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am the foremost. (1 Timothy 1:15)

The more we realize that we are weak, fragile vessels in which God places his spriit, vessels with cracks, held together with tape and staples, the more we come to realize how much we need God’s mercy and forgiveness and healing.

without me you can do nothing. (John 15:5)

We come to rely on God more. And I don’t think that is a sin.

-Tim-

 

[Carlan]

Yes BB,the false doctrine of "Once saved always saved’ is a good example of ‘Presuming God’s mercy’ Peace, Carlan

 

[terri95]

It’s one thing to commit grave sin habitually and presume that God will forgive you, or to shoot the dice, gambling that you have time before you really repent. But it is quite another to fall short and have great faith in God’s mercy and love. If you are truly repentant yet make mistakes, it is not a sin have faith that God will forgive you.

What if you commit venial sin, even after deliberating about it, and decide to do it anyway? Does it become a mortal sin then?

 

[Carlan]

What if you commit venial sin, even after deliberating about it, and decide to do it anyway? Does it become a mortal sin then?

Terri,I suggest you take these two questions into the confessional. You seem to be dancing around scruples to me :shrugeace, Carlan

 

[Carlan]

Terri, three things are neccessar for a sin to be mortal: (1)** Serious matter **(2) Knowledge or firm belief that the act is seriously wrong prior to committing the act3) Full consent of the will.
PS, Concerning venial sin and perfection, growth in holiness is a life long process, If we don’t achieve it before death there is the state of Purgatory where the process is completed before going on to be in complete union with God , face to face. Peace, Carlan

 

[Julian0404]

I’m kind of confused about this. I’ve searched around the forums, haven’t found an answer.

Isn’t doing any sin deliberately presuming on God’s mercy? If we didn’t expect God to forgive us, we wouldn’t sin at all, would we?
Also, I read that presumption means asking for forgiveness when you aren’t repentant. Well, how repentant is repentant?

Read from St. Francis de Sales, who teaches about confession, penance, presumption