Preventing Family Member from Brainwashing

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Dymphna82

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OK, not sure this is the right section to put this.

Anyway, I used to be Pagan and I took my first courses with this Wiccan coven. The coven managed to get my sister to take the courses too, against my wishes. Afterall, she has no interest in Wicca, she just wants a free therapist, from my perspective. I’m serious when I say that because several years later and she still has read very little about it or practiced it.

Anyway, I managed to get her to stop attending courses and rituals, while I had started a new, open Wiccan group for a while. It was a group that, at the time, I considered more family friendly.

Of course, my perspective is against all Wicca now.

Anyway, it seems that the High Priest of the first coven, who was very good at brainwashing moved to another state, far away. I was very happy about this. But now I find they’ve been communicating through the internet. She says she doesn’t listen to everything he says but still, I can give her advice but she wont follow it unless he says the same thing. Today I found a philosophy book on her desk, that looks like something he’d recommend. I also see her posing for pics, dressing the way he’d want her to dress.

What can I do to bring her closer to Christ? Or at least away from him? She’s 24, btw.
 
That’s a tough situation!! 😦
I’m no expert, but the best place to always start anything is prayer. From experience, a cocktail of persistent, daily prayers can be a powerful force! Prayers for the intercession of St. Monica and St. Augustine along with the Divine Mercy Chaplet converted my atheist friend.
Another person I know was a Protestant who converted to Catholicism with the help his wife’s prayers in the adoration chapel with the blessed sacrament. She did an hour every 1st Friday, I think… There’s supposed to be some particular devotion associated with that time. Hopefully someone here can tell you what that is about, because I don’t know the particulars for it. :confused:
Any other ideas?
 
Can you talk to her, as a sister, and just tell her you’re worried about her falling into an abusive relationship with a control-issues problem guy?

It doesn’t sound like it really has anything to do with Wicca, but more a potentially controlling, abusive relationship she’s letting her get sucked into for whatever reason.
 
Just take her to a Catholic mass… I think the readings should be a good place for her to start to see the truth in the Gospel and the falseness of wicca.
 
I took her to mass three weeks ago and she was willing to go, and we also shopped around the area afterwards. She said she had fun that day but she said that something about the mass just made her feel angry for no reason.

And we went out to anniversary dinner with my parents tonight. She spent the whole dinner with her face in the cell phone, texting and playing cell phone games. Frustates me.

This guy, he’s married to the High Priestess. She also talks to another guy that’s local, that’s in his mid 40’s.

My friend said, and I agree with her, that it seems like she has daddy issues. But I know for a fact that our father has never done anything to us, so I’m not sure what the problem is.

I find being around her so toxic now that I’m back to Christ. I wound up calling her the B word this evening, even though I didn’t want to. It just seems to me that all the behavior she complains about is what she does.
 
OK, I apologized for calling her the B word and we talked. Still, I’m worried about what advice she’s getting online.
 
I have some experience with this from dealing with my soon to be ex. If your sister wants to be in she will be in - if she wants to go to Church she will go to Church. However, God can play a role if your sister asks her too. I recommend saying the Rosary for her intention - the Virgin Mary crushed the power of Original Sin and the Prayer of St Michael the Archangel - the only Angel that defeated Satan in battle. God bless you and your sister. Be careful and feel free to PM me.
 
Pray like crazy! If you can, offer Masses for her while you continue to be loving and available to her. Don’t stop giving her advice or sever communication- you don’t that man being the only source of “guidance” in her life.
 
Dymphna82 said:
OK, not sure this is the right section to put this.

Anyway, I used to be Pagan and I took my first courses with this Wiccan coven. The coven managed to get my sister to take the courses too, against my wishes. Afterall, she has no interest in Wicca, she just wants a free therapist, from my perspective. I’m serious when I say that because several years later and she still has read very little about it or practiced it.

Anyway, I managed to get her to stop attending courses and rituals, while I had started a new, open Wiccan group for a while. It was a group that, at the time, I considered more family friendly.

Of course, my perspective is against all Wicca now.

Anyway, it seems that the High Priest of the first coven, who was very good at brainwashing moved to another state, far away. I was very happy about this. But now I find they’ve been communicating through the internet. She says she doesn’t listen to everything he says but still, I can give her advice but she wont follow it unless he says the same thing. Today I found a philosophy book on her desk, that looks like something he’d recommend. I also see her posing for pics, dressing the way he’d want her to dress.

What can I do to bring her closer to Christ? Or at least away from him? She’s 24, btw.
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Since she’s not your kid and a mentally competent adult in her own right, you could try leaving her alone to live her own life. Your dissatisfaction with her spiritual choices or your former ones is not healthy grounds for intervention. You don’t state that there is any truly unhealthy dynamic in her long-distance relationship with this priest. Unless he is somehow manipulating her for money or otherwise doing something inappropriate, it’s not your concern.

You speak of brainwashing and yet what you’re doing is asking people’s advice on how to brainwash your sister into your belief system. Can you imagine the uproar if the tables were reversed: if a family member of yours started scheming on ways to free you from the “clutches” of the Catholic Church and the “insidious influence” of your confessor! Her spiritual journey is just that, her own, just as yours is your own.

If you want to “sell” someone on your church, live your life in a way that shows it brings something worthwhile into your life. On your present course, your sister is likely experiencing the church as a force of ugliness, a group of people hoping to assert mental and spiritual ownership over her, who don’t respect her spiritual seeking and who turn nasty when she fails to convert right away.

It’s great that your journey led you to where you are, but the fact that your new truths now seem self-evident does not mean they will be so for everyone else in the world. Maybe your sister’s seeking will lead her to your church in time. Maybe not. If it does, it will not happen on your time schedule or by the same route you took. And if you keep after her too hard, you will essentially vaccinate her against ever wanting to be a part of your church. No one is badgered into a sincere conversion to Christ!
 
Actually, you’re quite wrong. She said her biggest issue was being around so many people. She has a lot of anxiety and mood stuff going on right now. She did not have to go at all. She went of her own free will. She made the excuse that she’s more of a hermit. And that could maybe be because she has barely left the house in over a month and has been talking to them online.

This guy is very dangerous. I’ve worked with different groups that are not dangerous. There is absolutely no reason why she should go to him for guidance, of all people. I said that at the very least, I want him away from her. Christ would be who I’d prefer her to find to save her soul, but I don’t want her to make decisions that will screw her up physically and mentally She has issues with identity. I’ve seen it with her time and again, with different people. I feel better when she makes healthy decision but when I see the hallmarks of his training, I know she’s not doing that.

And again, this really doesn’t have much to do with Wicca much at all, so please don’t come here on your, “have to defend the Wiccans” horse. Maybe you’re anti-Christian and are projecting your own grudges onto my sister. This guy doesn’t even believe half of the stuff in Wicca and is just in it because he likes the rituals and the tenets, and she doesn’t even read Wiccan books. She just lets this guy mold her. She doesn’t make one decision without his stamp of approval.
 
I find just ken’s post incredibly presumptions and offensive. Do you think I like talking about this, ken? I wish this was simply a case of her just doing what she wants to do, but I know from talking to her that she doesn’t seem sure of anything she wants to do or who she is.

And as for the question as to whether I would like it if people were working to try and take me away from Christianity? Well, I already have my boyfriend who probably wishes I had become Protestant, who urges me to not “pray to” Mary. Who tells me how we interpret the Bible is wrong. If you look through my post history, you’ll find only a few days ago he was on here, getting banned for saying such things. I read for myself and make up my own mind.

I had this guy trying to coax me into changing myself into what he thought I should, but I have a firmer grip on who I am. And everytime he becomes an influence, she becomes extremely hostile and antisocial, and makes decisions that get her into problems. Not argumentative. There’s a difference. I would prefer argumentative. I want her to be a more independent person, believe me.
 
Dymphna82 said:
Actually, you’re quite wrong. She said her biggest issue was being around so many people. She has a lot of anxiety and mood stuff going on right now. She did not have to go at all. She went of her own free will. She made the excuse that she’s more of a hermit. And that could maybe be because she has barely left the house in over a month and has been talking to them online.

This guy is very dangerous. I’ve worked with different groups that are not dangerous. There is absolutely no reason why she should go to him for guidance, of all people. I said that at the very least, I want him away from her. Christ would be who I’d prefer her to find to save her soul, but I don’t want her to make decisions that will screw her up physically and mentally She has issues with identity. I’ve seen it with her time and again, with different people. I feel better when she makes healthy decision but when I see the hallmarks of his training, I know she’s not doing that.

And again, this really doesn’t have much to do with Wicca much at all, so please don’t come here on your, “have to defend the Wiccans” horse. Maybe you’re anti-Christian and are projecting your own grudges onto my sister. This guy doesn’t even believe half of the stuff in Wicca and is just in it because he likes the rituals and the tenets, and she doesn’t even read Wiccan books. She just lets this guy mold her. She doesn’t make one decision without his stamp of approval.
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It’s not all that clear from your original post that the problem is this guy. You seem more concerned about converting her to your faith. I don’t deny that there are manipulative coven leaders. I worked under one myself at one time. It’s a common beginner’s mistake. But you haven’t said what it is about this guy’s actions toward your sister that are problematic. Is he really trying to control her or is she just a normal, confused young 20-something who has a bit of a crush on this guy and tries to earn his approval? Is he a sexual predator? Do you really know that your sister or this guy are not serious about their faith? The fact that she doesn’t read Wiccan books doesn’t say much one way or the other. Many of them are not worth reading, and Wicca is more of an experiential religion than a written one.

Of course I don’t know the whole story. I can only respond to what is posted. It sounds a lot like a normal young woman struggling with some self-confidence and identity issues. Catholicism won’t fix that, and neither will you. If she is truly in a dangerous situation, stronger action is warranted. If not, you will just have to be there for her, offer some gentle advice, and help pick up the pieces when it goes wrong and she learns a life lesson. There’s simply no shortcut to growing up, and no easy way to be a sibling. I’m not “anti-Christian.” One of my best friends of 25 years is a devout Catholic, and I respect that. I do have problems with “spiritual warfare” types who think that my faith is evidence of some derrangement we need to be “rescued” from. If you’re not of that stripe, we have no fundamental disagreement.

I will recommend a resource you might find handy. Believe it or not we pagans have been long aware of the problem of cult-like coven leaders. One of our best authors, Isaac Bonewits, who recently passed, wrote an excellent evaluation tool for helping to decide whether a coven leader is cultish or dangerous. Many on this forum will simply dismiss all of us as Satanic cults, but for those interested in some realistic and useful distinctions, I commend this to your attention:

neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html
 
Her post did mention that the sister is dressing the way this leader asks, and then taking pictures of herself for him. That crosses the line into creepy cult territory.
The advice she’s received is to pray for the girl, which hardly qualifies as “brainwashing into her belief system”.
 
She’s said she’s not interested in Wicca, numerous times. This guy is an open nontheist but chooses to be a High Priest. He’s married, he’s middle aged and I am 100% certain she does not think of him in a romantic way.

I’m not answering anymore of your questions, ken, because i don’t feel I should have to defend my perspective when I’m here for help.

I’m just going to pray. Thank you all for your time.
 
Anna_jane said:
Her post did mention that the sister is dressing the way this leader asks, and then taking pictures of herself for him. That crosses the line into creepy cult territory.
The advice she’s received is to pray for the girl, which hardly qualifies as “brainwashing into her belief system”.
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Yes, but it’s not at all clear if she’s really doing these things at his instigation, or because she’s hoping to earn his attention and approval. I don’t deny for a minute the possibility that some guy is using Wicca to try to take advantage of impressionable young women. It’s a perennial problem in our community, and quite frankly, in any religion. On the other hand, it’s far from clear that’s what’s happening here. Nothing wrong with people praying on her behalf, or even inviting her to go to a Mass, if she’s of a mind to do so. But it sounds very much like a typical young person struggling to figure out who they are and a well-meaning sibling who is trying a bit to hard to steer that process.
 
kenofken said:
If she is truly in a dangerous situation, stronger action is warranted. If not, you will just have to be there for her, offer some gentle advice, and help pick up the pieces when it goes wrong and she learns a life lesson. There’s simply no shortcut to growing up, and no easy way to be a sibling.
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That’s some sage advise right there. Even though you might not agree with all that Ken says, he has a point here…
As for being there for your sister, this could help: A priest once told me that the best way to communicate openly is to simply let them know that you will listen to them whenever they are feeling like they want to talk to you about it, but then let it go. They just might not be comfortable confiding in you yet, because they are afraid of being judged or whatnot. Let her know that you will listen with love, not judgment, and she might be able to confide in you with more openness. Of course, if you say you will do that, you gotta follow through, which can be the hard part. 🙂
… Hmm… I should follow that advise myself, because I’m not too good at doing that. :o

Cool quote: “Christianity is not a matter of persuaing people of particular ideas, but inviting them to share in the greatness of Christ. So pray that I may never fall into the trap of impressing people with clever speech, but instead I may learn to speak with humility, desiring only to impress people with Christ himself.” --St. Ignatius of Loyola
(Yet another thing that I must work on!!) 😉

Also, it is very obvious that you love and care for your sister. Yay for you!! Even if things don’t work out, at least you still have that love. <3
 
Dymphna82,

I’ve prayed for you and your sister.

I was a Neopagan myself for about 17 years, and have been a Catholic since 2006. I’m gradually realizing that when I was involved in it, I was not only subjecting myself to some bad psychological influences— in the attitude of always thinking of all Christians as witch-burning persecutors, for example— but there are also bad spiritual forces that may be at work.

I know that sounds silly to a lot of people, one of the first things one learns about Wicca/Neopaganism is that they don’t worship the devil and so therefore there is no risk of demonic/evil influences being present. Even when I was going thru RCIA and the priest wanted me to pray a prayer renouncing Satan, demons, Tarot cards and the like, I just mainly did it to humor him.

But as time goes by, I’m beginning to think I’m really glad I prayed that prayer. There is bad stuff out there in the world and it sometimes becomes a problem to those who open themselves up spiritually in the way a lot of Wiccans and Neopagans do.

The main answer is prayer and sacraments. If your sister doesn’t want to go to mass, do a lot of praying for her especially before the Blessed Sacrament. Maybe she would be willing to accept a blessed rosary or medal??? Perhaps you can just say you feel guilty that you might have unintentionally been a bad influence on her???

Remember that no matter how much you love your sister, God loves her even more. But sometimes you have to be patient!
 
You may want to get her a few books for Xmas,

When Prophecy Fails: A Social and Psychological Study of A Modern Group that Predicted the Destruction of the World [Paperback]
Leon Festinger (Author), Henry W. Riecken (Author), Stanley Schachter

True Enough: Learning to Live in a Post-Fact Society [Hardcover]
Farhad Manjoo

When Prophecy Never Fails: Myth and Reality in a Flying-Saucer Group [Hardcover]
Diana G. Tumminia

Brainwashing: The Science of Thought Control [Paperback]
Kathleen Taylor (Author)

Combatting Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults [Paperback]
Steven Hassan

Releasing The Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves [Hardcover]
Steven Hassan (Author)
 
Sounds like some interesting titles. I will see if I can look into a few.

I actually got her a miraculous medal today, one for her and one for me. I told her if she doesn’t wear it, to put it somewhere safe. She put it in a box. So it’s up to her if she wants to use it or not. I also gave her a green scapula the other day.

I do admit I do feel some guilt in regards to some choices she has made. Ever since we were little, I would make a decision and she’d make the same decision. It used to irritate me so much because my mom would blame me. But I dunno, she goes through phases of doing whatever I do, then resenting me when we start disagreeing, then she finds a friend and follows what they do, hangs out with them excessively, and winds up resenting them too.

I have been talking to her more the past few days, trying to keep dialog with her, and being patient. Maybe she will resent this guy too but I hope it doesn’t happen when too much has passed.

I avoided this entire forum the past few days because I found the earlier dialog upsetting. I almost didn’t want to check but I am thankful for the help. I have a long road ahead of me and God knows how much I need him. I am a challenge enough for myself.
 
Dymphna82 said:
Sounds like some interesting titles. I will see if I can look into a few.

I actually got her a miraculous medal today, one for her and one for me. I told her if she doesn’t wear it, to put it somewhere safe. She put it in a box. So it’s up to her if she wants to use it or not. I also gave her a green scapula the other day.

I do admit I do feel some guilt in regards to some choices she has made. Ever since we were little, I would make a decision and she’d make the same decision. It used to irritate me so much because my mom would blame me. But I dunno, she goes through phases of doing whatever I do, then resenting me when we start disagreeing, then she finds a friend and follows what they do, hangs out with them excessively, and winds up resenting them too.

I have been talking to her more the past few days, trying to keep dialog with her, and being patient. Maybe she will resent this guy too but I hope it doesn’t happen when too much has passed.

I avoided this entire forum the past few days because I found the earlier dialog upsetting. I almost didn’t want to check but I am thankful for the help. I have a long road ahead of me and God knows how much I need him. I am a challenge enough for myself.
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Never mind the ones who attack. There are enough truly caring folks here to keep me coming back. There is a troll for every thread, I’m convinced after being on various forums for years. And a grump for the ones the trolls miss.

Your sister sounds as if she never really formed her own self-will or mind. I don’t know if there is a name for that, but she could use protection until she does. I hope she does, because people like her are the ones predators look for.
 
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