Priest wouldn't give dispensation...caused all sorts of trouble!

[sailor28]

Am I the only person who wonders whether some posters here are envious of such a faithful and committed woman who also is blessed with a good husband and family? When I am envious of someone, their complaining is particularly hard for me to handle. Maybe the deeply inconsiderate nature of the some of the comments here come from that sort of emotion?

This thread may be something of a voodoo doll upon which people are taking out their aggression on people who live full and prosperous lives. I hope I’m wrong about that.

You may be on to something. I read here with disbelief on many occasions. This is definitely one of them.

Tryinghard,

No need to ask next time. God is not a policeman. Use your own judgment in these situations and trust in the love and mercy of God.

 

[TryingHard17]

And then possibly say go and sin no more.

He did say if you love me you will keep my commandments.

He also cautioned against legalism when he asked who wouldn’t help a sheep out of a ditch on the Sabbath. I’m no biblical scholar, but He seemed to be saying that there ARE things that suddenly come up that make fulfilling our Sabbath obligations a secondary concern?

 

[TryingHard17]

You may be on to something. I read here with disbelief on many occasions. This is definitely one of them.

Tryinghard,

No need to ask next time. God is not a policeman. Use your own judgment in these situations and trust in the love and mercy of God.

Thank you. And to be honest, I don’t want my kids growing up with my own scrupulosity thinking God is trying to “catch” them and send them to hell. Everyone in our family knows that unless there is an illness, we all make church a priority, even on vacation and even when we are tired. If we feel well enough, it is safe to get there and there is a church nearby, we go. If we would go to work or school or run an errand, we go. But we also don’t make commitments to people who are going out of their way to see us for the first time in years and then call them at the last minute (which is incredibly rude) and cancel because we made a mistake about mass times, and we don’t have to force ourselves to skip meals and languish around a hot church for hours on end with young kids and a very pregnant woman to fulfill the letter of the law. I don’t think anyone here learned a lesson about our commitment to God or about His mercy. I think what I learned here is that it was most likely not a sin (let alone a mortal one) if we had just gone home and tried again next week.

The mass time was my mistake, but it was a MISTAKE. God does not expect me to hurt our lifelong friends’ feelings or inconvenience them in order to show up at mass when we tried our best earlier and failed. And God knows how kids are, and what pregnancy is like. He gave me my kids and He knows all about pregnancy. If a person can go to hell for something like this, very few people have any chance at all. I wonder if some of these posters have any friends at all considering how casually they suggested I throw our only plans with them in a 3-year period out the window because of a I made about mass times.

 

[Della]

Thank you. And to be honest, I don’t want my kids growing up with my own scrupulosity thinking God is trying to “catch” them and send them to hell. Everyone in our family knows that unless there is an illness, we all make church a priority, even on vacation and even when we are tired. If we feel well enough, it is safe to get there and there is a church nearby, we go. If we would go to work or school or run an errand, we go. But we also don’t make commitments to people who are going out of their way to see us for the first time in years and then call them at the last minute (which is incredibly rude) and cancel because we made a mistake about mass times, and we don’t have to force ourselves to skip meals and languish around a hot church for hours on end with young kids and a very pregnant woman to fulfill the letter of the law. I don’t think anyone here learned a lesson about our commitment to God or about His mercy. I think what I learned here is that it was most likely not a sin (let alone a mortal one) if we had just gone home and tried again next week.

The mass time was my mistake, but it was a MISTAKE. God does not expect me to hurt our lifelong friends’ feelings or inconvenience them in order to show up at mass when we tried our best earlier and failed. And God knows how kids are, and what pregnancy is like. He gave me my kids and He knows all about pregnancy. If a person can go to hell for something like this, very few people have any chance at all. I wonder if some of these posters have any friends at all considering how casually they suggested I throw our only plans with them in a 3-year period out the window because of a I made about mass times.

Oftentimes when we catch a priest “on the hop” his answers aren’t going to reflect the whole of the situation. I don’t think you needed to stay for the second Mass and it might have been better not to bring up the situation in confession before the next Mass. Not saying you’re at fault, rather just trying to get into what was happening at the time.

As Catholics we have to use our prudential judgment in such situations. We can make such decisions for ourselves when we are properly informed about what constitutes grave reasons. Caring for young children is a legitmate reason for missing Mass. I believe you had good cause if you had decided to go home.

Don’t feel badly about the misunderstandings in your situation. Ask your dh for understanding–that you believed it was your duty to attend Mass, but now you see it wasn’t necessary. And learn from it. If you talk it out with your pastor I believe he’d see what was happening better, but that’s up to you to do if you wish. Be at peace now, dear sister and know that indeed God isn’t waiting like a traffic cop to ticket violaters. He loves us and understands our needs.

 

[wadramli]

Hi Edmundus

I’m like you . I take a look at what I’ve said and I’ve to ask myself did I really say that ? is this me ? and I laugh.

Have to tell you though this lady here is not ordinary . On a level field you and I combined couldn’t hope to go toe to toe with her .

What really are the issues here ? its in the title of her post . priest caused trouble she said .

the government is calling me right now so I have to go. It’s the wife … she has domesticated me well . when I come back we will talk and I’ll show you point for point why she is not an ordinary woman. . usually mothers are never ordinary. They are extra ordinary .

 

[Neofight]

And then possibly say go and sin no more.

He did say if you love me you will keep my commandments.

He may very well would say that, but he would know that it was an impossible task and he would be ready to forgive us again…and again…and again…and again.

He did say “if you love me you will keep my commandments,” but he did not add. “and therefore if you happen to break any of them, even once, you do not love me”

I’m not sure about you, but I have broken the commandments on many occasions, and never was it with even the remotest thought of not loving Jesus.

In the case of the OP…worst case scenario, she sinned…best case, she did not obey the letter of the law. Either way, if she went to the Lord with a contrite heart and spirit, her relationship with God is intact.

She is probably, as I am, thankful that we only has to answer to God, and not everyone on the internet!

Peace and all good!

 

[wadramli]

Lets do my mother and her . my mother 14 kids and she has 2 kids and baby on the way . lets level the fields some. \

My bible class . tribal women with babies crying . I have to yell the lesson in a loud voice like Methodist preacher . hey tatonti , wha ? WHAAAAAaaaaaaat are the names of Jacob wives ? repeat them for me . hey TATONTIIIIII I’m talking to you. She ina different world . one of hers dangling in the open and the other nursing the baby . I have to walk over to her and yell …get rid of the baby now . she looks at me and hands her baby to the other woman who does what ? she nurses the baby .

Do you see it ? half of my siblings were not nursed by my mother . my kid brother was not even nursed by my mother . my aunt nursed him. In infact I suspect this lady here did more nursing than my mother .

Note also neither me nor anyone object to the babies presence . they stay .
At Mass over one thousand attend . packed big chapel. Not a sound. Where are the kids ? they’re out in the compound supervised and watched by members of the tribe . here it is not uncommon that a child tugs at you and demand you pick him up or get him this and that . he belongs to your tribe therefore he is yours too. its an issue for the church . church takes orphan and raise him but tribe can claim the child anytime . there are really no orphans .not in the western sense .

But the kids sometimes go in the chapel during mass and run around and cause trouble. Not for long . playing hide and seek or chasing one another sort of thing . folks smile. Youth where did go they say?

Now the lady here complained about her two kids throwing tantrum. The issue here is with the congregation. They get touchy . in her smaller world , the world at home she is in control . but she doesn’t have that control in church . she can probably slide by a shorter a Mass. But a long winding Mass , how ? she was placed in a troubling position.
Also someone could go to the priest and tell him look I need a dispensation because I really coulddn;t participate because there are a couple of kids making noise.

There is something in St Aquinas writing about the law to do with the common good . I am not sure though.

also check when something supercede the rules /laws

Sabbath for man or man for Sabbath?

I think priest invited for dinner good idea. Her turf . not the church . Have kids jump all over him. Good food. Dispensation he gives and he gets two acid relief pills . end of story .
The problem of course can be solved by having a nursery . where I’m the nursery comes built in the culture. Women nursing babies of other mothers . kids are everyone kid .
So we level the fields and we see the lady job is harder than my mother .

Her husband. Down where I’m at things are different . a guy beat up his wife . woman screams . men from extended family come to see what’s up. Woman has black eye . who did this they ask? she says husband. Husband grabbed by older men and they beat the living out of him . you really don’t have that much say as a husband . they tribes are not about to let a woman be under the mercy of a young male powered by testosterone. This western life style where you put a woman with a man n a house by themselves is madness . a man gets to have a say after many years after he has proven he is a man . but for our lady she has to control her husband with what ? with love ? a deal that involves so many untenable stuff such as self realization and actualization and determination and who knows what else . she is always at risk of her husband walking out on her . in this he gave her a look . get in the car he says more work for her . she comes to Mass and she leaves having to discipline her husband for rebellious behavior . she has to nip it at the pod this sort of thing to make sure it doesn’t grow and cause further trouble down the road. If he has any issues he should have taken it up with the priest . not backing her and blaming her are to be corrected . extra work for her

i could go but you get picture

Now there is another issue . western commitment to cultural pluralism. .but look enough for now . go ahead beat me up

 

[z_0101]

Let’s shut this thread down…

TryingHard17 - as you see there is a mix of opinions here.

• You tried… bless you… God sees your heart.
• You tried again with the Spanish Mass… hey, I’ve gone to the Spanish Mass a few times too… however, your kids had reached their limit… great, understand - been there at Easter Vigil with a 6month old infant that kept over heating however, neither I nor my wife could leave as I was one of the team helping to get the converts ready… you and your family were fortunate. Take care of the kids and if that meant you had to cut the Mass short then so be it.
• Been to Mass and my Wife was pregnant with Twins in a high risk pregnancy… she however, seemed to make it thru - inconvenience of it all.
• What gets my goat here is the word “inconvenience” perhaps there is a better word?
• Not to add any burden at all; however, you have a very simple solution to this entire situation… go to confession… explain what happened… more than likely Father will tell you not to worry too much about the situation and he will give you absolution so that you can put this entire thread to bed.

:tiphat:

[SIGN]Peace of the Lord be With You[/SIGN]

 

[Edmundus1581]

Oftentimes when we catch a priest “on the hop” his answers aren’t going to reflect the whole of the situation. I don’t think you needed to stay for the second Mass and it might have been better not to bring up the situation in confession before the next Mass. Not saying you’re at fault, rather just trying to get into what was happening at the time.

As Catholics we have to use our prudential judgment in such situations. We can make such decisions for ourselves when we are properly informed about what constitutes grave reasons. Caring for young children is a legitmate reason for missing Mass. I believe you had good cause if you had decided to go home.

Don’t feel badly about the misunderstandings in your situation. Ask your dh for understanding–that you believed it was your duty to attend Mass, but now you see it wasn’t necessary. And learn from it. If you talk it out with your pastor I believe he’d see what was happening better, but that’s up to you to do if you wish. Be at peace now, dear sister and know that indeed God isn’t waiting like a traffic cop to ticket violaters. He loves us and understands our needs.

Good post Della! Thankyou for contributing the words prudential judgement to the discussion.

I would not have responded except to correct a couple of words which are important.

…We can make such decisions for ourselves when we are properly informed about what constitutes grave reasons. Caring for young children is a legitmate reason for missing Mass. I believe you had good cause if you had decided to go home…

The Church doesn’t require that we have a grave reason to miss Mass, She only requires a serious reason. That’s an important distinction. And, yes, we exercise our prudential judgement to decide whether we have a serious reason in a particular situation, and, yes, we seek to be better informed about the subject also.

Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2181

The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, ** unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) **or dispensed by their own pastor.119 Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

Please note that “illness” and “care of infants” is not an exhaustive list. They are just “for example” and we can exercise our prudential judgement before God, in trust, on anything else which may come before us a possible reason to miss Mass.

 

[grasscutter]

I think I’m going to regret posting in this thread again.

However, the OP’s story has inconsistencies and that troubles me. This is a one day event - over and done with. The OP asked for a dispensation and was refused, so then she fulfilled what she believed was her obligation.

She chose to come on this forum to ask about it. Whenever a response was one she didn’t like, the details of the day changed slightly. For example, now we are meant to be given to understand that she’s not just 8 months pregnant but also underweight (information that, if given in the first post, would have resulted in much different responses).

In this thread, and any others that she’s started, when the advice isn’t what she’s expecting she disparages the forum. My advice to this is to simply speak about these things to a Priest and not to anonymous people on the internet.

Out of charity and because I remember what it’s like to be in the last trimester with smaller children, upheaval, etc., I assume that the OP is simply overwhelmed at the moment and would benefit from our kindness and prayers.

 

[TryingHard17]

I think I’m going to regret posting in this thread again.

However, the OP’s story has inconsistencies and that troubles me. This is a one day event - over and done with. The OP asked for a dispensation and was refused, so then she fulfilled what she believed was her obligation.

She chose to come on this forum to ask about it. Whenever a response was one she didn’t like, the details of the day changed slightly. For example, now we are meant to be given to understand that she’s not just 8 months pregnant but also underweight (information that, if given in the first post, would have resulted in much different responses).

In this thread, and any others that she’s started, when the advice isn’t what she’s expecting she disparages the forum. My advice to this is to simply speak about these things to a Priest and not to anonymous people on the internet.

Out of charity and because I remember what it’s like to be in the last trimester with smaller children, upheaval, etc., I assume that the OP is simply overwhelmed at the moment and would benefit from our kindness and prayers.

I only elaborated about being underweight as a way of filling in the details of the day when getting what essentially amounted to “suck it up” comments from some posters. I don’t consider this to be an “inconsistency”. The fact is, I am 35 weeks pregnant and have gained 19 pounds so far with a scheduled c-section in 3.5 weeks.

Thanks for the prayers though

 

[retire_early]

I agree that this thread should die, already.

The poster should make up her own mind about not attending Mass, not blame the priest or ask for dispensations (that’s like when you are going on a trip and plan in advance).

Trying Hard has got too much on her plate and should prioritize things so she doesn’t put herself in a position of missing Mass without good reason. If she and the kids were too exhausted to sit through the long Spanish Mass, then just go home. They have a physical excuse.

Getting dispensations a number of times seems strange to me, unless she had some exotic job that took her to far-flung places on Earth where there is no church. Maybe she misunderstands the use of dispensations?

TryingHard….seems like you are trying too hard. It isn’t that complicated. Go to Mass if you are able, physically and mentally. Don’t go if you can’t. Confession is for when you don’t go and you could have (reasonably). Its up to you to be a Big Girl and discern what reasonable is and not lay that burden on the priest.

P.S. Sometimes I give hugs and sometimes I talk tough. Still love ya, though!

 

[estesbob]

I agree that this thread should die, already.

The poster should make up her own mind about not attending Mass, not blame the priest or ask for dispensations (that’s like when you are going on a trip and plan in advance).

Trying Hard has got too much on her plate and should prioritize things so she doesn’t put herself in a position of missing Mass without good reason. If she and the kids were too exhausted to sit through the long Spanish Mass, then just go home. They have a physical excuse.

Getting dispensations a number of times seems strange to me, unless she had some exotic job that took her to far-flung places on Earth where there is no church. Maybe she misunderstands the use of dispensations?

TryingHard….seems like you are trying too hard. It isn’t that complicated. Go to Mass if you are able, physically and mentally. Don’t go if you can’t. Confession is for when you don’t go and you could have (reasonably). Its up to you to be a Big Girl and discern what reasonable is and not lay that burden on the priest.

P.S. Sometimes I give hugs and sometimes I talk tough. Still love ya, though!

Amen! It’s not that complicated. She made an effort to go to mass, she got the times wrong, she should’ve just taken her kids home and got ready for their company.