Priesthood and Reputation

[RevDrNorth]

This has probably been discussed before in one form or another but probably equally as damaging to vocations as the 60’s and the celibacy issue are the Priests who have let down their brothers by their activities. There is a perception among many Protestants (often unspoken) that many Priests are either gay or pederasts/pedophile’s. ETWN has addressed the gay issue before as I recall.

As I was getting excited about the idea of Priesthood, today I came across an article from the Free Republic (2004) about some law suit against LA diocese over a group of gay/perderast Priests who were controlling key positions and looking for young seminarians and so on. Nothing new as a few years ago a celibate gay Priest was featured on 60 Minutes as he was suing his Bishop (or seminary superior) because he was pressuring him for sex. Then you start thinking is that what is behind the desire for young Priests? In point of fact, I have know three gay Priests. One was in the army and known to be gay. He made a pass at a friend of mine who then refused to go to Mass on post (his fiancee told me). Another gay Priest I know lives with his boyfriend/significant other (they have been together for years).

At any rate, that Free Republic article made me sad. But…I remembered what Fr. Groeschel said a couple of years ago (Franciscan Priest and Psychologist). He noted that these issues are alive and well in the general populations and alive and well in the Protestant churches as well. He noted incidents of pedophilia are no more prevalent among RC Priests than the general population. On the whole he said, Catholic clergy just get focussed on more because the church is an Elephant and some people choose to focus on her. He was not excusing the behaviors just noting the issues. {We Protestants have Ted Haggard, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swagart and so on and plenty of Pedophile youth ministers}

It will sadly take years for the Priesthood to recover its once revered status. I have heard stories about Priests who no longer wear clerical attire due to negative perceptions. Where is the Bing Crosby priest? I once read an article where a Priest decried that image BUT Bing (Priest he played) was spiritual, modern, sensitive, manly (boxed, played sports), innovative and so on but also highly moral. Not a bad image.

I suppose only time will heal the image. I know some orders web sites talk about wanting masculine Priests and so on (I guess projecting more of the Bing Crosby image}. I saw a Bishop on EWTN talking about how they needed to crack down on the homosexual Priest issue but then I think no one is sure how to handle any of it. The scandals of pederasty (molestation of teengaers) has cost millions and bankrupted some diocese. Some pople have left the church and others go but do not contribute. This is troublesome because the church must have income and already Catholic pew goers give about 50% of what Protestants do (according to a Time?? article I read).

I am sure Christ will see the Church through these attacks and she will weather the storms. People need to remember how much good the Church is responsible for from preserving learning in the dark ages, to hopsitals, and higher education. A great gift to the world.

Rev North

 

[Caesar]

As a young man discerning the call to the priesthood myself, I have been pained and saddened by these abuses. Despite that, I firmly believe that the priesthood is greatest vocation a man may aspire to, though he is infinitely unworthy of it. Satan has truly done harm to the faithful by attacking the priesthood and drawing men into the clergy who will betray the Church and Our Lord Jesus Christ. But like a piece of coal under great pressure, the Church will emerge a diamond- smaller perhaps, but radiant with the grace of God and hardened against evil.

The Church is going through a rough period, but we must combat the evils that have seeped into the Church through prayer and penance.

 

[RevDrNorth]

As a young man discerning the call to the priesthood myself, I have been pained and saddened by these abuses. Despite that, I firmly believe that the priesthood is greatest vocation a man may aspire to, though he is infinitely unworthy of it. Satan has truly done harm to the faithful by attacking the priesthood and drawing men into the clergy who will betray the Church and Our Lord Jesus Christ. But like a piece of coal under great pressure, the Church will emerge a diamond- smaller perhaps, but radiant with the grace of God and hardened against evil.

The Church is going through a rough period, but we must combat the evils that have seeped into the Church through prayer and penance.

Amen Brother!

 

[kellicouch77]

I think it is horrible that all priests have to carry the burden caused my only a few (in comparison to the number of priests). We have two priests assigned to our parish, and I have never thought that they were… monsters waiting on victims. Father Adam is very adamant on this issue and sometimes he comes accross like a Baptist preacher during his homily on the subject. I admire his passion for defending the church, and I try to carry that with me whenever someone says something about priests and child abuse. (Latest one I heard was, “is there a problem with lesbian nuns??”)

Our parish priests need our support. We need to let them know that they are appreciated.

 

[pawel15]

The catholic church must rely on Jesus Christ, the Blessed Mother, and the Holy Spirit for spiritual help and guidence. Too many catholic’s (especially the liberal catholics) rely on their own ‘wisdom’ and ‘strength’ to overcome the churchs problems. Without obedience to the Lord, we get these perverted homosexuals/pedefiles, who think they are doing God’s will by entering the seminaries. (I bet that some are even incouraged to do so, by liberal catholics).

My R.E teacher (a women) from college said and i quote “I don’t mind gay priests, but i hate pedefile priests”. She even said that if the bishop heard this, she would get into alot of trouble.

Now tell me what is the difference between gay priests and pedefile priests? Simple, their is no difference, both these group of people go against the conscience and direct teachings of the Catholic Church. They have stained the altars and holy sacraments with their filth that now must be cleansed, through penance, love and self-sacrifice. We must daily lift up our cross and show the world the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

 

[AquinaSavio]

It’s extremely sad. I hear the jokes, and it really makes me angry. However, it is up to those who are becoming priests to repair the damage of their predecessors. It is important that all of us pray for the clergy.

 

[debraran]

My 18 year old son likes Fr. Corapi and when he said becoming a priest is hard today because of the scandals (and some continue today) I told him about what he said concerning it.
He honestly said when he was ordained he felt he was the luckiest man on earth…he did well in school, had many blessings and graces, and got to have John Paul ll ordain him (can you imagine??) His first confession on the streets of Italy after that had him feeling lighter than air. Then 2 years or so of adoration wherever he went, not having a parish, he was loved almost by everyone in his travels, no resentments, nice emails/letters, …then it happened. Suddenly he was hated, spat at, looked at curioiusly and he had doubts…he had to take the weight of their sins on his shoulders as a fellow brother in the priesthood and it was hard. But in his darkest moments he realized he wasn’t in just to feel good, but to preach to everyone the faith and to have them remember who was really in charge. To sugarcoat the angst and betrayal is wrong, but WHY you are a priest should always take precedent and who you are working for. By giving a good example, you can get more young men to consider it…you have to show them what consistutes more of the priests than the ones that caused so much harm. I pray daily for vocations and that they have the strength through God’s grace to go forward. We need them and they need our support.

 

[Fr.Joe]

If the priesthood was truly filled with as many homosexual, child molesters as the media likes to make out, I sure as heck would not be one! The few that fit that description have tarnished us all unfortunately. Thus the need for, good, holy, healthy, orthodox,men (of any age) to step up to the plate and help turn the tide.

Fr. Joe

 

[RevDrNorth]

If the priesthood was truly filled with as many homosexual, child molesters as the media likes to make out, I sure as heck would not be one! The few that fit that description have tarnished us all unfortunately. Thus the need for, good, holy, healthy, orthodox,men (of any age) to step up to the plate and help turn the tide.

Fr. Joe

True Fr. Joe. I recall attending Mass once a few years ago and an older Catholic priest began his homily by saying that the church was lucky there were still people in the pew after all that was going on (that was just after the first wave of scandals). He seemed sad.

I tend to agree with Fr. Groeschel that the stats are likely similar in terms of molestation to the public at large and there are many Protestant issues as well but the Church is just the big elephant in the room and there is a certain anti Catholic bias.

I have to say that while I know (or have known) homosexual priests and know one who lives with his boyfriend, I have also known a Mormon chaplain who cheated on his wife with another man (was forced out of military) and protestant clergy who had affairs, left their wife for same sex person and so on. It is NOT a Roman Catholic problem.

I think in years past the RCC was kind of a safe haven when homosexuality was far more taboo than it is these days (ie you could be a Priest and no one asked why you were not married), This is changing I am sure as our culture changes.

It is heartening to see orthodox clergy and those seeking the Priesthood who are determined to uphold the values and dignity of the calling to serve Christ in ordained/religious life. Thank you for your continued service and loyalty to the Church Were it not for men like you, those that would like to see the RCC fall over this issue would succeed. Of course we know that will not happen as the gates of hell will not prevail against His church.

Rev North

 

[debraran]

I agree 100% that all clergy has problems, etc. and we are not alone (but that doesn’t make it right either) but the big difference with the Catholics is that priests were always held to a higher regard at least among its flock. I think that was a mistake in a way, not that they shouldn’t be very respected and supported, they bring us our Lord and teach us, etc. but they are HUMAN and not blessed with an infallibility of sin at ordination. One priest I read about said the loneliness was horrible, the having to hide depression, hurt, etc. because of the need of always helping others, listening to others, etc. His fellow priests were getting busier and busier with less priests and he was alone more or among just secular friends.
I know as a child for a few years I thought priests didn’t sin…thought they were “above us” in many ways. Then I was disillusioned to hear and see priests abuse alcohol, have affairs, be cranky all the time, etc. and my mom said, “Deb, they are human, ordination doesn’t make people angels”. She also told me a lot of priests back int he 50’s were pushed a bit into the priesthood, especially the Irish. Some vocaitons were not their own and at least nowadays, young men are waiting longer and it is Gods calling they hear, not their moms, their decision to listen. I remember hearing about that when I worked at a hosptial and a handsome Irish priest told me he never really felt the calling, his brother just dropped out of the seminary (bad grades/hehavior) and he had to go. Some young men that might of had homosexual tendancies went into it, because parents/relatives would constantly ask “when are you getting married” or tried constantly to fix them up. That is also less now, so hopefully young men, although not as in abundance, will be there for all the right reasons. I am very hopeful, I know our church will not flounder and grow with less weeds.

 

[augieboo]

As I was getting excited about the idea of Priesthood, today I came across an article from the Free Republic (2004) about some law suit against LA diocese over a group of gay/perderast Priests who were controlling key positions and looking for young seminarians and so on.

Don’t let servants of the evil one – whether they be pederast priests, lawyers for pederast priests, or unpaid publicists for anti-Catholic forces, (Free Republic and most of the rest of the press), rob you of your excitement about the idea of priesthood!

Becoming a priest is not going to help you win popularity contests, but then He warned us about that, didn’t He?

“If you belonged to the world, the world would love its own; but because you do not belong to the world, and I have chosen you out of the world, the world hates you,” (John 15:19).

Where is the Bing Crosby priest?

Maybe closer than you think.

Take a look in a mirror.

Maybe that’s him, right there. :doh2:

 

[Andy_K]

I agree 100% that all clergy has problems, etc. and we are not alone (but that doesn’t make it right either) but the big difference with the Catholics is that priests were always held to a higher regard at least among its flock. I think that was a mistake in a way, not that they shouldn’t be very respected and supported, they bring us our Lord and teach us, etc. but they are HUMAN and not blessed with an infallibility of sin at ordination. One priest I read about said the loneliness was horrible, the having to hide depression, hurt, etc. because of the need of always helping others, listening to others, etc. His fellow priests were getting busier and busier with less priests and he was alone more or among just secular friends.
I know as a child for a few years I thought priests didn’t sin…thought they were “above us” in many ways. Then I was disillusioned to hear and see priests abuse alcohol, have affairs, be cranky all the time, etc. and my mom said, “Deb, they are human, ordination doesn’t make people angels”. She also told me a lot of priests back int he 50’s were pushed a bit into the priesthood, especially the Irish. Some vocaitons were not their own and at least nowadays, young men are waiting longer and it is Gods calling they hear, not their moms, their decision to listen. I remember hearing about that when I worked at a hosptial and a handsome Irish priest told me he never really felt the calling, his brother just dropped out of the seminary (bad grades/hehavior) and he had to go. Some young men that might of had homosexual tendancies went into it, because parents/relatives would constantly ask “when are you getting married” or tried constantly to fix them up. That is also less now, so hopefully young men, although not as in abundance, will be there for all the right reasons. I am very hopeful, I know our church will not flounder and grow with less weeds.

I agree 100% with every sentiment in this post, but I would like to supplement the point about priests being “holier than thou”; I see this all the time with people of my age group. It is the manifestation of not only an attitude that priests think they are “spiritually above” their congregation, but that priests are actually supposed to be holier than the average person.

The Catholic faithful need to be aware that EVERYONE, the priest, the religious, the married, and the single, are called unconditionally to holiness. Of course, I’m preaching to the choir, here, but I figured it was worth saying anyway:thumbsup:

This perception seems to be most prevalent amongst the more nominal Catholics.

 

[Caesar]

My Diocese has faced the aftermath of the worst cases of clerical sexual abuse in Canada. In the last six years we have seen eight priests tried and convicted for molesting children. The Diocese has lost millions of dollars in lawsuits, resulting in near-bankruptcy. This past year alone, 33 parishes were closed. The worst case broke the news in September when a retired priest was arrested and charged with sexually abusing over 50 young girls at one parish in the 1970s. He died shortly after his imprisonment in March, and the Diocese is now facing a class-action lawsuit from the victims and their families. Besides that, the Diocese is suffering from extremely low vocations and Mass attendance. The Diocesan Seminary is full of heterodox professors, the media is hounding the Bishop, and the government controlls the Catholic schools (you can do a forum search for some of the horror stories I’ve posted about).

This has really affected me and my vocation discernment. For one thing, my family is not very Catholic. My two sisters joined the United Church of Canada (an ultra-liberal protestant church here that seems is booming); my step-father (who doesnt like me much anyway) calls himself Catholic, but is rabidly anti-clerical and gets angry when I go to church; while my mother is indifferant for the most part. When the lastest abuse case came out in september, I was sitting in the living room one morning and my mother drops the newspaper onto my lap (with the priest;s photo taking up most of front page, under the headline “Father Feeler”) and gives me a disgusted look. My stepfather is always making insulting off-hand remarks about the Church, especialy in regards to this issue.

 

[RevDrNorth]

My Diocese has faced the aftermath of the worst cases of clerical sexual abuse in Canada. In the last six years we have seen eight priests tried and convicted for molesting children. The Diocese has lost millions of dollars in lawsuits, resulting in near-bankruptcy. This past year alone, 33 parishes were closed. The worst case broke the news in September when a retired priest was arrested and charged with sexually abusing over 50 young girls at one parish in the 1970s. He died shortly after his imprisonment in March, and the Diocese is now facing a class-action lawsuit from the victims and their families. Besides that, the Diocese is suffering from extremely low vocations and Mass attendance. The Diocesan Seminary is full of heterodox professors, the media is hounding the Bishop, and the government controlls the Catholic schools (you can do a forum search for some of the horror stories I’ve posted about).

This has really affected me and my vocation discernment. For one thing, my family is not very Catholic. My two sisters joined the United Church of Canada (an ultra-liberal protestant church here that seems is booming); my step-father (who doesnt like me much anyway) calls himself Catholic, but is rabidly anti-clerical and gets angry when I go to church; while my mother is indifferant for the most part. When the lastest abuse case came out in september, I was sitting in the living room one morning and my mother drops the newspaper onto my lap (with the priest;s photo taking up most of front page, under the headline “Father Feeler”) and gives me a disgusted look. My stepfather is always making insulting off-hand remarks about the Church, especialy in regards to this issue.

Caesar, My heart goes out you.

You obviously are earnest and trying to follow God’s call on your life. Stay focussed on that. As Fr. Joe noted, he would not be a priest if the church was simply full of these kind of Priests. And…there are many examples (not always making the big papers) of Protestant clergy molesting children, engaged in homosexual affairs and so on. This is NOT limited to the Catholic Church. If your parents think so they are very misinformed. Nor is it limited to churches. It is sin and it takes place within the context of fallen men and women in society. Some of these men and women have betrayed their calling as Christians and as clergy. When that happens the Church and fellow Christians/clergy take as hit as well.

You desiring to honestly and ethically live out your call are the type of Priest the RCC needs. I recall a nun in University once saying that God always provides for the church after it has gone through times of trial. She noted the corruption and excesses within the Church leading to the Reformation AND that leading to a Counter Reformation and Spiritual resurgence in the Roman Catholic Church.

Get with a spiritual director you trust.

You should love and listen to your parents but God comes first always and forever. As St. Paul says, press on to the high calling you have in Christ Jesus:thumbsup:

Rev North

 

[Caesar]

Caesar, My heart goes out you.

You obviously are earnest and trying to follow God’s call on your life. Stay focussed on that. As Fr. Joe noted, he would not be a priest if the church was simply full of these kind of Priests. And…there are many examples (not always making the big papers) of Protestant clergy molesting children, engaged in homosexual affairs and so on. This is NOT limited to the Catholic Church. If your parents think so they are very misinformed. Nor is it limited to churches. It is sin and it takes place within the context of fallen men and women in society. Some of these men and women have betrayed their calling as Christians and as clergy. When that happens the Church and fellow Christians/clergy take as hit as well.

You desiring to honestly and ethically live out your call are the type of Priest the RCC needs. I recall a nun in University once saying that God always provides for the church after it has gone through times of trial. She noted the corruption and excesses within the Church leading to the Reformation AND that leading to a Counter Reformation and Spiritual resurgence in the Roman Catholic Church.

Get with a spiritual director you trust.

You should love and listen to your parents but God comes first always and forever. As St. Paul says, press on to the high calling you have in Christ Jesus:thumbsup:

Rev North

I am very lucky to have a faithful and devout priest as my spiritual director already.

It is very true that God always provides for the Church in times of trial. In the periods of greatest turmoil in the Church God has given us the greatest Saints. And these periods, terrible as they might be when they occur, always serve to strengthen the Church later on. Recall when I likened the the trials of the Church to a piece of coal under great pressure- the Church will emerge a diamond- smaller perhaps, but radiant with the grace of God and hardened against evil.

There is an interesting book I read recently that disusses the current crisis in the Church- The Courage to be Catholic by George Weigel. Very informative and encouraging at the same time.

 

[debraran]

I told my son not to let the current news dissuade and to think of John Paul ll, who had a great influence on him in high school. I think if he went to a youth day with him, it would of strenghened him more, but his memory and way with the youth remains.
Also priests that we see on EWTN exist other places, but they are a strong influence too.

I wondered about something watching many of them on TV, were most of the abuses among diocesan priests? I know I heard of one or two in communities, but most seemed to be in charge of a church. I wonder if the community lifestyle and having others around you temper this kind of behavior. Or that someone who God forbid knows he is going to be a certain way, would avoid them. Just a thought…

 

[bilop]

My Diocese has faced the aftermath of the worst cases of clerical sexual abuse in Canada. In the last six years we have seen eight priests tried and convicted for molesting children. The Diocese has lost millions of dollars in lawsuits, resulting in near-bankruptcy. This past year alone, 33 parishes were closed. The worst case broke the news in September when a retired priest was arrested and charged with sexually abusing over 50 young girls at one parish in the 1970s. He died shortly after his imprisonment in March, and the Diocese is now facing a class-action lawsuit from the victims and their families. Besides that, the Diocese is suffering from extremely low vocations and Mass attendance. The Diocesan Seminary is full of heterodox professors, the media is hounding the Bishop, and the government controlls the Catholic schools (you can do a forum search for some of the horror stories I’ve posted about).

This has really affected me and my vocation discernment. For one thing, my family is not very Catholic. My two sisters joined the United Church of Canada (an ultra-liberal protestant church here that seems is booming); my step-father (who doesnt like me much anyway) calls himself Catholic, but is rabidly anti-clerical and gets angry when I go to church; while my mother is indifferant for the most part. When the lastest abuse case came out in september, I was sitting in the living room one morning and my mother drops the newspaper onto my lap (with the priest;s photo taking up most of front page, under the headline “Father Feeler”) and gives me a disgusted look. My stepfather is always making insulting off-hand remarks about the Church, especialy in regards to this issue.

Caesar,

God Bless you in your discernment. From reading your posts, it seems like you would be just the kind of Priest we need.

My brother-in-law is a recently ordained Priest, and through him I have met many of the newer Priest in our diocese. I am thrilled to say, the tide is turning. The young priests are faithful and holy and orthodox. They get some flack from some of the liberal priests, but nothing too bad here. If your diocese is heterodox, I say get out. There are plenty of diocese and orders that welcome orthodox men.

If you want to come to NY, PM me and I’ll get the vocation director to contact you I’m only half kidding

God Bless