Priests refuse to give Holy Communion to people kneeling

[zab]

Thank you Amy.
I cannot speak for the Filipino woman as to her motives as I do not know her. We have a large Filipino community here but we also have many Filipinos who visit Japan that come to our church. I am told that in the Philippines it is very common for people to kneel. I did not recognise this woman so I cannot say if she was visiting or if she is resident here in Japan and at our church for the first time.
**But trying to figure out someone’s motives in a live situation is next to impossible if we don’t know the person. **My assumption was that this was her way to receive holy communion because that is how she was brought up…

I think that we should give the priest the same benefit of the doubt and not judge his motives from the one incident with the woman. We do not know if you were busy distributing Communion and possibly did not see the full picture. We do not know if the priest had formerly encountered this person and was possibly aware of some problem, perhaps the reason he did not want to discuss, or exactly what all the exchange of words were. It is the rest of your story that shows there may be a problem, especially when you say that you did not see or hear about what had happened to your friend until the priest chastised you for your friend’s behavior. And then forbid your friend to return. It is only with this additional information that raises my suspicions.

 

[Kurisu35712]

Sorry about that.
I thought the system allowed for also comments on a paragraph-by-paragraph basis.

I will resend my previous response as a separate integral response shortly.

Many thanks
Neil

Not sure if anyone else answered this yet, but if you want to break the quote into sections to respond to it, you need to use the

quote format

to be able to do it. Usually I just copy the brackets at the beginning and then manually put the /quote part once I want to start my reply, then paste the brackets before the next part of the quote. Does that make sense?

 

[chaplainmom]

I have to say that I agree with the priest insisting people stand to receive communion. I do not agree with his way of enforcing it. He should never have said bad things about your friend or denied him the opportunity to return to mass at your church as your friend. But let me help you see what he MIGHT be dealing with internally.

I knew a priest who had encouraged homeschooling mothers to kneel before him to receive communion on their tongue. This was a power situation where the priest was able to behave privately in sexually abusive ways with these women who publicly knelt submissively before his power. A priest who knows of other priests who abuse their power in this way could have major problems with people kneeling before him to receive communion. No healthy minister, chaplain, pastor, or priest wants to be placed in such a situation where adult people are kind of “adoring” them. I think kneeling before the blessed sacrament is beautiful but best done in adoration chapels where the Host is in the monstrance not in another person’s hands.

 

[naylordaisy]

I think that we should give the priest the same benefit of the doubt and not judge his motives from the one incident with the woman. We do not know if you were busy distributing Communion and possibly did not see the full picture. We do not know if the priest had formerly encountered this person and was possibly aware of some problem, perhaps the reason he did not want to discuss, or exactly what all the exchange of words were. It is the rest of your story that shows there may be a problem, especially when you say that you did not see or hear about what had happened to your friend until the priest chastised you for your friend’s behavior. And then forbid your friend to return. It is only with this additional information that raises my suspicions.

Hi Zab,
Thank you for the comments.
In fact in the first incident, I was standing about one metre from the priest as we were both giving holy communion to two lines of people at main front area of the lower altar. My line had completed with no one left. To my left this priest in question was standing and the last person in his line arrived. This was the Filipino woman.
She was kneeling. I heard a commotion from the priest, looked to my left and saw him trying to physically force her to stand by grabbing her right arm at the elbow area. He pulled at her to stand but she remained kneeling.
With that he turned away from her exclaiming that the Catholic Bishops of Japan had forbidden kneeling and he rushed back to the high altar.

Even in refusing to stand, he should not have grabbed her. It was truly unseemly and in sight of the congregation and of course the Blessed Host.
Most probably he just lost his cool and regrets it. So of course it is right to be charitable and forgiving. But I think too we at our church have to work on ways to make sure
such incidents are not repeated and also that there is a reasonable respect for people’s
wishes so long as they conform to guidelines from the bishops/Rome.

The incident has passed now but I felt she merited an apology. I also felt ashamed,
I kept asking myself how would Christ have acted?
We are supposed to be a welcoming Church.

While I was praying about what to do with this incident, the second incident, quite literally, blew up in my face not five weeks later when my friend was refused initially and then I was reprimanded by the PP, a different priest to the first one.
The other two priests in our parish, on the other hand, give communion to people whether standing or kneeling. It is never an issue with them. Each of our four priests serve masses at different times.

The main point really is how to handle future situations.
As of now, it is a very confused situation and unresolved.

God Bless
Neil

 

[naylordaisy]

Not sure if anyone else answered this yet, but if you want to break the quote into sections to respond to it, you need to use the to be able to do it. Usually I just copy the brackets at the beginning and then manually put the /quote part once I want to start my reply, then paste the brackets before the next part of the quote. Does that make sense?

Many thanks for the tip, I appreciate it very much.

Cheers
Neil

 

[naylordaisy]

Hello,
Can anyone please advise me on this issue.
A week before Christmas one of the priests at our parish church refused to give Holy Communion to a woman who was kneeling. She was the last person in line so was not causing any obstruction to people. She was refused by the priest. He asked her to stand, She refused. Then to my shock he tried to force her to stand by grabbing her arm.
I was serving as Eucharistic minister at hat particular mass. She continued to refuse to stand. HE then rushed away from her. She remained kneeling for a long 3 more minutes or so.
It was heart-rending to see her. The priest claimed t was in the rules of the Catholic Bishops Conference of Japan that people had to stand as he rushed away from her.
But this is not so. The guidelines for Japan clearly say not to refuse anyone who is kneeling.

Then last Saturday week my English friend visiting Japan from South Korea came to mass at our parish church and he was refused the Holy Communion because he was kneeling. In this case it was our parish priest. However my friend decide to stand when requested by the priest.

But when I was leaving the church this parish priest essentially admonished me for my friend’s kneeling behaviour and with that my friend came over to us and told the priest that he was in error about kneeling. The priest said he was not. In the short exchange, the priest went on to tel my friend never to come back to our church even as my friend was being polite but firm with him in this exchange. My friend turned away and the this priest spoke disparagingly to me about my friend. He also made clear in the exchange that he did not want to receive any emails from me nor my friend that would show he was in error. I finally spoke and defended my friend as being an honourable person and that in fact the priest was in error.
In all of this this priest was very rude.

Both of these experiences have left me with a feeling of shock and frankly disgust.
The priests are from America as we are an international Catholic Church.

There have been other issues too including heterdoxical teachings.

But right now, the immediate reason I write this message is to ask for advice from anyone about what to do.
I know Canon Law says contact our local bishop who is Japanese but what if the bishop here does not take any action?

Another question is has anyone ever had such an experience with priests who behave like this?
I am still trying to come to terms with their behaviour.
Am I wring to believe that they are in error, that their behaviour seems mist un-Christ-like and all this in the Jubilee Year of Mercy?

God Bless
Neil

Hello everyone,

In the past week, I finally received some email response from one of the priests who refused to give Holy Communion to a kneeling communicant. It was from the priest in the first incident who refused to give Holy Communion to a woman who knelt.

Basically, Fr. G said that an exception was made to the guidelines from the Catholic Bishops Conference of Japan to allow kneeling but that in the case of our parish church, this exception is not recognised because people can trip or be disrupted.

He went on to to tell me that in another diocese outside of Japan a cardinal declared that a communicant would be excommunicated for kneeling and that anyone giving Holy Communion to those who kneel would be suspended. He said a priest was suspended and sent home for doing such a thing when he challenged a bishop over this.

I replied quoting Canon Law which says that kneeling is acceptable.

To this he has remained silent.

God Bless
Neil

 

[Cider]

I would absolutely report it to the Bishop. The reasons have already been well covered by previous posters.

 

[naylordaisy]

I would absolutely report it to the Bishop. The reasons have already been well covered by previous posters.

Thank you for your comments.

I have begun the process and am preparing the required documentation.
I have been asked by Canon lawyers to forward to them the relevant details.

God Bless
Neil

 

[Wildgraywolf]

In other words, if I had to choose a hill to die on… this one wouldn’t be it.

Same here.

 

[Brendan_64]

There’s two types of ‘kneelers’. Those who are culturally familiar with it and are happy to stand if directed by the Priest… and those who use it to register a protest against Vatican II reform and ‘moderns’. They give off different vibes.

There are also those who believe that the most reverent way to receive Communion is to kneel. This is in no way a “protest against Vatican II reform and ‘moderns’”. I would say that most people who choose to kneel to receive Communion do so out of a sense of reverence. And the bottom line is that any Catholic is absolutely entitled to kneel to receive Communion and the priest has no authority whatsoever to insist otherwise.

If you want to kneel to receive, then do so. If a priest tries to get to to receive by standing then stay kneeling, he is the one who is out of order, not the person kneeling. You are not kneeling for the priest, you are kneeling before God.

I have never seen a priest refuse to give Communion to a person who knelt, even in more ‘liberal’ parishes. Priests know that they have no authority to refuse this.