Pro Choice Argument - I need "rebuttal" please :)

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I need to advise someone (a Catholic) how to answer a person who posed the following question to him (I don’t know if the “poser” is a Catholic or not):

“The ‘right’ insists that life begins at conception and that abortion or stem cell research constitutes murder. If this is the case should not the fetus be baptized as soon as pregnancy is confirmed and should not miscarriages bring about funerals and a religious burial?”

I have some feedback for him already although not very concise and I want to see what others would say. It would be great to get a response to give a non-Catholic as well as a Catholic. (ie - CCC quotes won’t work on a non, but would be great of course to refer the Catholic to). Thanks!
 
Wow. What an argument. It seems I’m going to be greedy here and learn more than teach, for I don’t know the answer. But I’ll certainly be watching this thread!
 
Well, first of all, I know people that have had memorial services for babies who were miscarried, or stillborn. It is a source of healing for them, & honors the child.

Baptizing…Exactly how are we supposed to accomplish this??? The baby is in mom. I mean, isn’t this just a way to deflect…It doesn’t sound like a rational argument, because it’s not do-able. You would have to endanger the lives of both mother & child, perform major surgery…
Sorry, but that just makes no sense at all!
 
Please explain how a valid baptism (water being poured in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit ) can be applied in the womb? I believe that some people (like your friends friend) should be required to attend special non-stupid school before being allowed to ask questions.
Mike
 
Really there are two positions on this depending on the road one wants to take. Both involve an even greater arguement. The first would be that because ti is necessary to actually touch the flesh with water in a baptism it is imposible ot baptize such a child however through an act of mercy or the faith intention of the parents the child could be saved by virtue of one or both of those acts. Thus, even though it is objectivelly true that baptism is necessary such circumstances are accounted for in the economy of salvation.

The second point is that even if the child cannot be saved through baptism or intention then the Limbus Infantum comes into play which is a place of non-suffering for such souls that could not or did not receive baptism.
 
Here’s how I would respond:

“The ‘right’ insists that life begins at conception and that abortion or stem cell research constitutes murder. If this is the case should not the fetus be baptized as soon as pregnancy is confirmed and should not miscarriages bring about funerals and a religious burial?”

You are putting up a “straw man,” by trying to imply that lack of baptism for recently conceived babies means we don’t really believe that life begins at conception. This is not true, and you know it isn’t.

It is the case that life begins at conception. We would baptize babies in the womb if we could, but we can’t. The best we can do is pray for them, and hope that “baptism of desire” can occur even if the one desiring it is not the one to be baptized.

Second, miscarriages frequently do result in funerals and a religious burial.

While we believe that one must be baptized to get to heaven, we trust God’s infinite love and mercy to take care of the unbaptized babies.
      • Of course, I’m not this good face to face. I wish I was! I’ve edited the above several times.
 
I am very pleased to hear about the burial of miscaried babies. This is something I’m not too familiar with, and the thought of considering a baby a real human and not giving a proper burial didn’t seem right.

On this issue of baptism, I agree that the answer is obvious. It’s not too likely that a child still inside the womb could be baptized.
 
I know some years back Monica Miller & the Scheidler’s (Pro-Life Action League) pulled aborted babies out of a dumpster at a Chicago Abortuary. They took them to the Scheidler home and stored them in a shed in the backyard. Later, they dug graves for the aborted babies and held funeral services.

I believe Monica Miller had to serve a prison term of about 6-9 months for taking the aborted babies from the dumpster. It was well worth it though so the aborted babies could have a funeral and buriel. You can now see pictures of those babies on the Priests For Life website!!
 
Psalm 37:4-5:
I need to advise someone (a Catholic) how to answer a person who posed the following question to him (I don’t know if the “poser” is a Catholic or not):

“The ‘right’ insists that life begins at conception and that abortion or stem cell research constitutes murder. If this is the case should not the fetus be baptized as soon as pregnancy is confirmed and should not miscarriages bring about funerals and a religious burial?”

I have some feedback for him already although not very concise and I want to see what others would say. It would be great to get a response to give a non-Catholic as well as a Catholic. (ie - CCC quotes won’t work on a non, but would be great of course to refer the Catholic to). Thanks!
Click to expand...
My wife and I lost a little one, who died in utero seven days before the date she was supposed to be born, from a cord accident.

I did baptize the little one when my wife gave birth to her lifeless body. We also decided to give the little one a name, little Rachel. I don’t believe that my baptism “took,” because of the time span between inactivity and birth, about 12 hours, but who knows, since I had baptismal intent? We considered giving little Rachel a funeral, but we realized that funerals as funerals are for the community, so that the community can say “goodbye,” and that giving a miscarried little one a funeral is puzzling to the community. My wife and I are Rachel’s “community.”

What little Rachel has, now, are the prayers of I and my wife, and my prayers address her baptism.
 
its an idiotic question actually. as many people said, sometimes there are furneral services or what not…but that is not the point.

whether or not a person had a funeral after death is not what qualifies them as a human person. does the person that asked that silly question believe that the miscarried babies that recieve funerals are human beings and the ones that don’t are not? they are drawing a completely arbitrary line by using this as their argument.

this only proves to me that the pro-aborts are becoming desperate for new ways to support their hideous position.

a person is a person, whether or not they are baptized and whether or not they receive a funeral. i dont see how something can go from being a “thing” to instantly being a “person” just as soon as a funeral is performed.
 
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