Pro Life Before and After Birth? And etc

[RCIAGraduate]

Hello,I hope everyone here’s had a good Merry Christmas.

I wanted to ask something that could be a particular conundrum for the pro life movement and its supporters.

How would you guys respond to the statement that Pro Lifers are all about protecting the unborn but are going to abandon them (and to an extent their mothers) to elements the moment they leave the womb?

Also,how would you react the related statements that Pro Lifers don’t support addressing the root causes(i.e education,improving social services) that could create a set of social conditions that would help such individuals(economically vulnerable and disadvantaged like single mothers and women in crisis pregnancies)

Furthermore how answer another argument that private charity is unsustainable in solving social welfare needs

And then there’s this possible argument(which could be seen more as a blanket statement or propaganda)that the “rich” don’t give. While it doesn’t apply to all the wealthy,I did read a piece that highlights the issue about wealthier donors giving but not giving to social and human services. And the social services sector does have to compete with other worthy(though perhaps not as critical-poverty is distressing)causes such as environmental organizations,university endowments and think tanks(of which some including one I very much look up to calls for rolling back if not ending federal welfare programs).

Here is the story I am referencing to.
businessweek.com/articles/2014-10-13/why-private-donations-arent-helping-americas-poor

Disclaimer:I am Pro-Life(though I certainly improve my involvement). I also support Civil Society,Service and Private Charity over Government Programs and Bureaucracies(not as slam against government workers who help the marginalized like social workers,they do admirable work,I just prefer different means. I am not bashing anyone,I would just like to see responses on how to deal with perceptions like these.

rackjite.com/wp-content/uploads/abortionsigne2.jpg

Pardon the length of the post. Have a Happy New Year.

 

[Hope_Philomena]

Slightly unrelated to your question, but my 9th grade Civics teacher said that he has a good argument for allowing abortion up to age four. As in, we can kill a three year old because they don’t have a conscience yet. That was his idea, anyway.

 

[grasscutter]

Pro-Life means (and should be adequately demonstrated! - and shamefully sometimes not) a respect for life from conception to its natural end.

 

[casslean]

I wonder how much money could be diverted from pro-life causes to social servce and human service causes if we didn’t have to spend quite so much time and energy just trying to keep those babies alive.

 

[YADA]

Well - can only speak from my personal experience -

Every single “Pro-Life” organization I work with provides assistance for the post born - for pregnant Mom’s single and married … and families in need - single parent and both parents … Thus I am unsure beyond the headlines and democratic party ‘talking points’ where these people are who think the only care if for the unborn [or what they really mean when they say that - the forcing of women to give birth against their will].

In fact - every long term Pro-Life advocate I know from the 1970s - even before Roe V Wade understood that we need to provide real alternatives to abortion - read about the Father Taaffe Homes here ccswv.org/fth-history.html
and the Mother and Child Education Center here momchildpdx.org/

We - those working and considered Pro-Life also volunteer and support Food Pantries’, Homeless Shelters and Warming Centers … I know pro-life people who make contact with those heading to Planned Parenthood - who have opened their homes and tirelessly assisted those people in gaining employment, appts/homes, funds to pay rent, utilities, mechanical repairs, buy groceries, etc …

So - the article you listed talked about private charities being smaller then government programs and some statistics on poverty … but it was light on real substance … it did not discuss the waste and fraud in those government programs - which takes monies from those in real need. It also did not address the negatives of assistance provided from the federal level - one size fits all - that has contributed to the destruction of the family and created generational dependence on government. The cartoon … just pure propaganda meant to denigrate those who advocate for life …

And - though I am sure you understand this - if you have no right to life [can de murdered in the womb] - you really do not have any real rights - you only have what is given to you after someone has determined that you get to live … which means of course - your continued existence is precarious at best

 

[cena]

Hello,I hope everyone here’s had a good Merry Christmas.

I wanted to ask something that could be a particular conundrum for the pro life movement and its supporters.

How would you guys respond to the statement that Pro Lifers are all about protecting the unborn but are going to abandon them (and to an extent their mothers) to elements the moment they leave the womb?

Also,how would you react the related statements that Pro Lifers don’t support addressing the root causes(i.e education,improving social services) that could create a set of social conditions that would help such individuals(economically vulnerable and disadvantaged like single mothers and women in crisis pregnancies)

Furthermore how answer another argument that private charity is unsustainable in solving social welfare needs

And then there’s this possible argument(which could be seen more as a blanket statement or propaganda)that the “rich” don’t give. While it doesn’t apply to all the wealthy,I did read a piece that highlights the issue about wealthier donors giving but not giving to social and human services. And the social services sector does have to compete with other worthy(though perhaps not as critical-poverty is distressing)causes such as environmental organizations,university endowments and think tanks(of which some including one I very much look up to calls for rolling back if not ending federal welfare programs).

Here is the story I am referencing to.
businessweek.com/articles/2014-10-13/why-private-donations-arent-helping-americas-poor

Disclaimer:I am Pro-Life(though I certainly improve my involvement). I also support Civil Society,Service and Private Charity over Government Programs and Bureaucracies(not as slam against government workers who help the marginalized like social workers,they do admirable work,I just prefer different means. I am not bashing anyone,I would just like to see responses on how to deal with perceptions like these.

rackjite.com/wp-content/uploads/abortionsigne2.jpg

Pardon the length of the post. Have a Happy New Year.

Some people are trying to push for straight out infanticide if they think the kid might have a bad life.

Illegitimate births have gone up after “safe” sex education (which good Pro lifers/Catholics)should be opposed to.

If the mother can’t provide for the child she can give them up for adoption, abortion costs a lot of money and is unnecessary.

As seen with things like euthanasia we don’t stop caring for the individual after birth.

Bill Gates and Melinda Gates are praised for donating to Planned Parenthood, but Catholics who donate to real charities are not.

 

[POJIUJH]

How would you respond to the statement that you are all about protecting Jews from the Nazi regime but are going to abandon them to elements the moment they leave the concentration camps?

1. Primary comes before secondary.
2. It is an insulting generalisation (in Ireland we have good developing programs for mothers that opt out of killing their children, even going to the extent of providing for living - all set up by the pro life missions and probably without any kind of government grant).

 

[pianistclare]

Catholic Adoption services give children a real chance at loving homes. And they don’t charge the tens of thousands of dollars that people get for private adoptions. They nearly always go through with no problems or last minute cancellations.
Also, what YADA said.
But you can’t help anyone if they don’t even exist.
These people that advocate that only the fittest should survive…are going to be in for quite the shock when they are old and infirmed in nursing homes. “Sorry pal, we need the bed and your insurance ran out”.

 

[YADA]

Catholic Adoption services give children a real chance at loving homes. And they don’t charge the tens of thousands of dollars that people get for private adoptions. They nearly always go through with no problems or last minute cancellations.
Also, what YADA said.
But you can’t help anyone if they don’t even exist.
These people that advocate that only the fittest should survive…are going to be in for quite the shock when they are old and infirmed in nursing homes. “Sorry pal, we need the bed and your insurance ran out”.

Adoption is always a loving choice … I did not mention it because it too is seen as an evil in today’s society - like its somehow stealing a persons child against their will … go figure

My SIL’s brother and his wife have spent $1000s trying to conceive and are now trying to adopt which is nearly impossible and will also take $1000s of dollars - At the same time each year - sadly - millions of babies are aborted - and really very few are given up for adoption … somehow its more acceptable to take the babies life then hand the child over to parents who want to love and nurture it as their own.

My aunt and uncle adopted three girls in the 1960s … Adoption is a wonderful gift - both for the child and the adoptive families

And Catholic Charities is there to help facilitate adoptions

 

[jeannetherese]

How would you guys respond to the statement that Pro Lifers are all about protecting the unborn but are going to abandon them (and to an extent their mothers) to elements the moment they leave the womb?

I point out that our local organization suppports pro-life education programs in grade schools and high schools and a maternity/toddler corner and that my pro-life church supports food banks, and all sorts of charities which provide housing, counseling, bill support for those in dire need, etc. As an individual, I have been providing supplementary support to a family which chose life for the past six years. I’ve also provided a great deal of support to the aged (meals/transport/housekeeping/emotional support) over the years. I think that as you reach out to pro-lifers, you’ll find that we have all sorts of ways of walking our talk.

Also,how would you react the related statements that Pro Lifers don’t support addressing the root causes(i.e education,improving social services) that could create a set of social conditions that would help such individuals(economically vulnerable and disadvantaged like single mothers and women in crisis pregnancies)
I’d point to my voting record. I’ve voted in programs to help others. I’d also point to the work which my church does in these areas which is supported by our tithing/ contributions.

Furthermore how answer another argument that private charity is unsustainable in solving social welfare needs
** Unsustainable? Private charity has been around for a very long time.
May God bless you and all who seek to care for His children at every stage of their development.
Amen. **

.

 

[St_Francis]

Hello,I hope everyone here’s had a good Merry Christmas.

I wanted to ask something that could be a particular conundrum for the pro life movement and its supporters.

How would you guys respond to the statement that Pro Lifers are all about protecting the unborn but are going to abandon them (and to an extent their mothers) to elements the moment they leave the womb?

Ask them for evidence, first of all. Find out how much pro-life organizations do in your area to help mothers. Point out that the Catholic Church is the largest charity in the world, setting up all sorts of charitable institutions, including help for mothers in this situation.

Also,how would you react the related statements that Pro Lifers don’t support addressing the root causes(i.e education,improving social services) that could create a set of social conditions that would help such individuals(economically vulnerable and disadvantaged like single mothers and women in crisis pregnancies)

1. we have a different idea of the root causes, strengthened by 2. we now aid women more than ever: we spend more on education (including lots of help for the poor to go through college), we provide more sex ed and contraception (as a society), we have more social services, etc, than ever before. And yet the only thing which seems to reduce unwed pregnancies is “punishments” like parental notification/permission requirements, welfare to work programs, etc.

Furthermore how answer another argument that private charity is unsustainable in solving social welfare needs

Private charities can do more to target monies appropriately and more efficiently. Private charities can offer more personalization of aid to help people where they are to get to where they want to be.

And then there’s this possible argument(which could be seen more as a blanket statement or propaganda)that the “rich” don’t give. While it doesn’t apply to all the wealthy,I did read a piece that highlights the issue about wealthier donors giving but not giving to social and human services. And the social services sector does have to compete with other worthy(though perhaps not as critical-poverty is distressing)causes such as environmental organizations,university endowments and think tanks(of which some including one I very much look up to calls for rolling back if not ending federal welfare programs).

There’s an article about how conservatives give more as a proportion of their income as well as donate more time and even blood than liberals do. The rich tend to be liberals (as liberals are fond of pointing out).

Here is the story I am referencing to.
businessweek.com/articles/2014-10-13/why-private-donations-arent-helping-americas-poor

Disclaimer:I am Pro-Life(though I certainly improve my involvement). I also support Civil Society,Service and Private Charity over Government Programs and Bureaucracies(not as slam against government workers who help the marginalized like social workers,they do admirable work,I just prefer different means. I am not bashing anyone,I would just like to see responses on how to deal with perceptions like these.

rackjite.com/wp-content/uploads/abortionsigne2.jpg

Pardon the length of the post. Have a Happy New Year.

 

[RCIAGraduate]

Hello everyone.

Thank you for all of your well though-out short and long responses. Though I’d love to see more,I do think have a good idea on how to respond to these perceptions(private charity replacing welfare might be tough but one can only argue and respond so much,sometimes opinions need more than arguments to change). I hope everyone has a wonderful week.

 

[Frankenfurter]

How would you guys respond to the statement that Pro Lifers are all about protecting the unborn but are going to abandon them (and to an extent their mothers) to elements the moment they leave the womb?

People who argue this way have no morals.

What I mean is this:

Suppose you are walking down a street and see a man beating his wife to death. You shout at the man to stop. He says to you, ‘I’ll stop, but you have to take her in as your wife and take care of her for the rest of her life’. So you say, never mind, and continue walking.

See what I mean?!?

It is simply amoral to kill someone because they cause you an inconvenience. And further, it is amoral to be able to prevent someone from killing someone but do nothing.

So realize that when you are talking to someone who makes this argument, that they are just like the man in the story who is beating his wife. Point out to them that they are doing something amoral and that they know it too - and that you will prevent it.

The problem with amoral folks is that they have no standard, no absolute of things that they won’t do. So you need to challenge them on this front. Explore with them where their lack of morality goes. You can do this by asking them what they would do if they were the man in the story. Would they stop the man from beating his wife? Perhaps you can open up a glimmer of morality in them. They can take it from there.

 

[Frankenfurter]

Also,how would you react the related statements that Pro Lifers don’t support addressing the root causes(i.e education,improving social services) that could create a set of social conditions that would help such individuals(economically vulnerable and disadvantaged like single mothers and women in crisis pregnancies)

Root cause of abortion is the desire for birth control after sex.

There is a real difference of opinion here that must be explored. If the goal is to reduce abortions, is it better to:

(a) promote a culture of abstinence before marriage, no artificial birth control, and a respect for life that disallows killing of babies.

(b) free and open sex, free government sponsored distribution of birth control, government enforced free access to abortion.

There is a real difference of opinion here. Or is there? Perhaps it is so obvious that by choosing (b) that you actually massively increase the number of abortions, so that the idea that pro-abortion folks somehow want to minimize abortions, is really exposed as a just a lie to make them feel better.

So by turning the tables back around by asking the pro-lifers to increase their giving to things that promote (b) we are in effect mixing things up so much that everyone is confused.

Please read this for some clarity: catholiceducation.org/en/controversy/population-control/contraceptive-imperialism-and-third-world-poverty.html