problems with dealing with homosexuals

[mrld20]

I think so many Catholics when they hear about homosexuality react with general disgust and displeasure jumping to the conclusion that everyone is engaging in promiscuous sex with the same gender.

I’m celibate to the letter (Church requires)… But some people in the Church are just incapable of showing love to homosexuals (what a surprise )… I’m sure the vast majority of Catholics in the Church are capable of showing love; but at the same times too many Catholics are afraid to reach out to people like me.

And this is an issue the Church has to deal with. In the past people didn’t here much about homosexuals.

I’m not saying that we as Catholics have to accept same gender sexual acts or marriage (nor should we; I’m all for keeping marriage for between a man and a woman). But we’re going to have to accept that in our society homosexuals like me are out there in the open (be they celibate or not).

And we’re going to have to accept the fact that they exist and will always exist.

I can’t tell you guys how many times I try to share my story and my struggles and how I’m pushed away. People tell me “Oh it’s your cross to bear; And go back into the closet and don’t tell us your a homosexual!”

It’s 2011. I don’t have sex but I shouldn’t be forced to lie about who I am. I’m tired of not being able to share my story. I’m tired of Catholics who think my testimony is just my “cross” and not their problem. You know what it is every Catholics’ problem. Violence and abuse against anyone is wrong.

Here’s a list of things that alot of homosexual/SSA Catholics like me would love to see the Church support.

1. Uniform condemnation of violence and hatred against homosexuals persons-So far the Church has only condemned violence against in official documents. Never has a Pope, Cardinal, Archbishop, or major theologian condemned events such as the bullying that led to the suicides of homosexual youth (Several of whom were active Catholics), condemnation of state sanctioned violence and torture of homosexuals (I’m not talking about refusing to marry them; I’m talking about Iran and Saudi Arabia chopping off the heads of homosexuals many of whom have never even had sex). Never has it happened outside of an official doctrine. When Osama Bin Laden got killed the Church felt it necessary to mention that killing someone should never be celebrated. But when a dozen or so homosexuals take their lives and it’s all over the news not one major Catholic other than Father James Martin mentions the tragedy. If the Church would show as much love to homosexuals as it did defending marriage people wouldn’t be so anti-Catholic.
2. Support for discrimination and hate crimes laws against homosexuals-Listen the Church is opposed to these because of the potential for the laws to be turned against the Church and her related affiliates themselves. If broad based protections for Churches traditional teachings and affiliated groups and persons were passed I’m pretty sure supporting discrimination laws wouldn’t be a problem. People should never be discriminated against in areas of employment (with exceptions to things such as the priesthood of course), housing, access to healthcare, basic needs (food, water, charity, and government services), and other basic human rights.
3. Stop creating an unwelcome atmosphere-I can’t tell you how many times I walk into my local parish and all the nasty looks I get. The Church needs to stop being homophobic. Let me phrase this… Too many in the Church don’t know how to deal with the homosexual issue. They either offer a blanket condemnation or simply ignore the issue altogether. Do I make some people on this forum uncomfortable? Probably yes. But people like me aren’t going away. We want to talk about ourselves, we want to share our stories with everyone, and we want support. Instead we find ourselves in an environment that would rather write us off, push us back into the closet, and into the back of the nave.

You don’t have to endorse “gay marriage” or “gay sex” to do this. You just gotta show the love Jesus showed to people. So many Catholics would rather not deal with me even though I’m faithful to Church teachings. It bothers them that I’m so open with my homosexual inclinations. A but at the end of the day the Church says I am a full member (as long as im celibate of course) whose welcome to pastoral care and who should be free from violence and discrimination. I’m just the tip of the iceberg. As the years go on more and more homosexuals in the church are going to be open about their SSA. And you know what to just push them back into the closet and say “It’s your cross; not my problem” is wrong and you all know it.

The Church hasn’t condemned the bullying outside official documents that leads to this. It’s time to do that. We don’t have to accept marriage or sex. But we do have to accept that we live in a time where homosexuality is becoming increasingly accepted. We have to accept that the homosexual Church goer exists and is more visible than ever before. We have to show them the love, sensitivity respect, and pastoral care.
The Church can no longer afford to simply brush people like me aside and push us away. I believe in God, the son, and the holy spirit.

But we don’t do that. The Church messages on homosexuals are so scattered and disorganized.

There’s a lack of sensitivity and compassion for some in in the Church. Everyone says “Oh there’s no such thing as homophobia. You bring it upon yourself for being open!”

Yeah well me being open about who I am is something the Church is going to have to accept and deal with. It’s no longer “my cross.” It’s my mom and dad’s cross. It’s your cross (because you have to deal and interact with me), it’s everyone’s cross! Show love not hate and accept me for who I am!

Gosh that felt good to get off my chest!

 

[BigFellaMick]

God Bless you friend for finding God in your life and clearly putting Him first in all things. That’s something many of us struggle with or simply can not due. Ultimately I am inclined to agree that it is a cross you will have to bear BUT you are absolutely right in wanting some frikkin support lol You’re not only Catholic, but a human being too and deserve the same dignity any one else would be shown. Personally I understand the initial reaction of pulling away as I’ve done it countless times and I feel bad for it. While this is no valid excuse as it does not justify the reaction, but my only experience in my 23 years of life with homosexual men or women (mostly women) has been one of unrepentant and very loud about their lifestyle. The ones that go out of control with pushing the homosexual agenda and forcing everyone around them to constantly remember that they are gay. My work is overrun with this mentality at the moment. Its unfortunate as I’ve never come across one worker there who disliked them for being gay, simply that they were so loud about it and just…yeah. People like you are what this world absolutely needs right now. You are an inspiration in my eyes friend as you and others who have made the decision to put God before self, prove to everyone, gay or straight, that God loves us ALL equally. And I would certainly hope other homosexuals who are seeking Christ but feel they could never find Him because of God’s well known and well versed passages against the “acts” of homosexual unions (very important distinction right there). I can’t offer a source other than CatholicNews.com But I could almost swear I read something awhile back quoting the Pope praying for the souls of the teenagers lately who have been ending their precious lives and asking us all to come together and work together to protect our children. As for congregants, thats going to be a battle that can only be won in time. For the general acceptance of homosexuals, there needs to be a countermovement BY homosexuals AGAINST the gay agenda. Brave men and women like yourself who can say, “This is who I am, yet I still recognize sin when I see it. I’ve put God first and you can too”. (I speak of the gay agenda when Im talking about forcing kids at young ages to learn about and accept gay marriage and the like through indoctrination) that sorta thing. I hope you don’t find any of this offensive my friend as I’m not trying to gear any of this in being a personal attack against yourself or anyone. Keep up the good fight and know you are never alone! God Bless

 

[Tietjen]

And this is an issue the Church has to deal with. In the past people didn’t here much about homosexuals.

I’m not saying that we as Catholics have to accept same gender sexual acts or marriage (nor should we; I’m all for keeping marriage for between a man and a woman). But we’re going to have to accept that in our society homosexuals like me are out there in the open (be they celibate or not).

So what. Fine there are homosexuals out there. Now what?

And we’re going to have to accept the fact that they exist and will always exist.

Again, who cares? There are heterosexuals out there too. Who cares?! You as an individual appear to be making more out of this than most. Your sexual orientation is none of my business. Why do you feel inclined to share it? Do I, as a heterosexual come here and feel the need to share my heterosexuality?

I can’t tell you guys how many times I try to share my story and my struggles and how I’m pushed away. People tell me “Oh it’s your cross to bear; And go back into the closet and don’t tell us your a homosexual!”

Again, that is because people don’t want it thrown on them. It may be hard to believe, but perhaps your sexuality is not at the top of everyone’s “I Have To Know List.”

It’s 2011. I don’t have sex but I shouldn’t be forced to lie about who I am. I’m tired of not being able to share my story. I’m tired of Catholics who think my testimony is just my “cross” and not their problem. You know what it is every Catholics’ problem. Violence and abuse against anyone is wrong.

No one expects you to lie. How about this… you share your story with those people who ask. To those who don’t ask, you stay out of their face. As far as violence and abuse, where did that come from? The Church does not support violence or abuse against homosexuals.

Here’s a list of things that alot of homosexual/SSA Catholics like me would love to see the Church support.

1. Uniform condemnation of violence and hatred against homosexuals persons-So far the Church has only condemned violence against in official documents. Never has a Pope, Cardinal, Archbishop, or major theologian condemned events such as the bullying that led to the suicides of homosexual youth (Several of whom were active Catholics), condemnation of state sanctioned violence and torture of homosexuals (I’m not talking about refusing to marry them; I’m talking about Iran and Saudi Arabia chopping off the heads of homosexuals many of whom have never even had sex). Never has it happened outside of an official doctrine. When Osama Bin Laden got killed the Church felt it necessary to mention that killing someone should never be celebrated. But when a dozen or so homosexuals take their lives and it’s all over the news not one major Catholic other than Father James Martin mentions the tragedy. If the Church would show as much love to homosexuals as it did defending marriage people wouldn’t be so anti-Catholic.

That is really ridiculous. First, the Church has and will continue to condemn violence and hatred against all groups of people. Why should homosexuals have their own special distinction in this area? Why can’t the Church simply say that abusing another person is wrong. Why do you want a special class for homosexuals where the Church must specify each and every category lest one group of people feel left out? Second, ANY & ALL suicides are sad and the Church doesn’t want ANYONE to do this. But again, you seem to be suggesting that special mention must take place when the person(s) happen to be homosexual. Really?! Why are you suggesting that homosexuals get special mention?

1. Support for discrimination and hate crimes laws against homosexuals-Listen the Church is opposed to these because of the potential for the laws to be turned against the Church and her related affiliates themselves.

Really?! Evidence to support your claim?!

1. Stop creating an unwelcome atmosphere-I can’t tell you how many times I walk into my local parish and all the nasty looks I get.

Well… here’s my thought. How is it that the people at your parish even know your sexual orientation? Are you dressing appropriately for Mass? Have you been “sharing” with those who don’t want to be shared with? Do everyone a favor and have some class… keep your private life private.

The Church needs to stop being homophobic. Let me phrase this… Too many in the Church don’t know how to deal with the homosexual issue.

No… most of us just don’t care. We are neither intimidated nor desiring to learn how to “deal with the homosexual issue.” Let’s say I was an alcoholic. Should you be called alcophobic if you didn’t want me in your face all the time? Should you have to feel obligated to “deal with” me because I drink?

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[Tietjen]

They either offer a blanket condemnation or simply ignore the issue altogether. Do I make some people on this forum uncomfortable? Probably yes. But people like me aren’t going away. We want to talk about ourselves, we want to share our stories with everyone, and we want support. Instead we find ourselves in an environment that would rather write us off, push us back into the closet, and into the back of the nave.

Stop being so dramatic and grow-up. No one is oppressing you. You don’t make me uncomfortable. You remind me of a child that wants to share something that few want to take part in. Accept the fact that most of us just don’t care just as you probably wouldn’t care to hear about my heterosexual private matters… the difference is I don’t feel compelled to share them.

You don’t have to endorse “gay marriage” or “gay sex” to do this. You just gotta show the love Jesus showed to people. So many Catholics would rather not deal with me even though I’m faithful to Church teachings. It bothers them that I’m so open with my homosexual inclinations. A but at the end of the day the Church says I am a full member (as long as im celibate of course) whose welcome to pastoral care and who should be free from violence and discrimination. I’m just the tip of the iceberg. As the years go on more and more homosexuals in the church are going to be open about their SSA. And you know what to just push them back into the closet and say “It’s your cross; not my problem” is wrong and you all know it.

The Church hasn’t condemned the bullying outside official documents that leads to this. It’s time to do that. We don’t have to accept marriage or sex. But we do have to accept that we live in a time where homosexuality is becoming increasingly accepted.

Yes, and we all know that the Church should accept what society determines to be acceptable.

We have to accept that the homosexual Church goer exists and is more visible than ever before. We have to show them the love, sensitivity respect, and pastoral care.
The Church can no longer afford to simply brush people like me aside and push us away. I believe in God, the son, and the holy spirit.

The Church isn’t ignorant. She knows that “homosexual Church goers” exists (just as they always have). However, so do alcoholic Church goers, contracepting Church goers, etc, etc, etc. We need to show ALL of them love. We do NOT need to single out one specific group of people and make them special above all the rest.

But we don’t do that. The Church messages on homosexuals are so scattered and disorganized.

That’s because you are only looking for “messages” that specifically address homosexuality. When the Church says to love your brother… She doesn’t say, “unless he is a homosexual.” Therefore homosexuals should feel included, yet, in your case, you do not… why?

There’s a lack of sensitivity and compassion for some in in the Church. Everyone says “Oh there’s no such thing as homophobia. You bring it upon yourself for being open!”

I believe that there are some people who are afraid of homosexuality but I believe that the term homophobic is thrown around too much. Many homosexuals will label anyone who doesn’t agree with their lifestyle as a homophobe.

Yeah well me being open about who I am is something the Church is going to have to accept and deal with. It’s no longer “my cross.” It’s my mom and dad’s cross. It’s your cross (because you have to deal and interact with me), it’s everyone’s cross!

LOL, It’s not my cross I don’t have to deal with you. If you were in my parish and were attempting to force me to deal with you then I suppose I would have to “deal with you.” But, that is not the case. Despite the fact that I haven’t agreed with anything you have said in this post, please don’t feel that I look down on you. You are like me, a human being full of flaws. Perhaps we both will eventually overcome these and be more Christ-like. God bless.

 

[babylonsfalling]

Nice rant but all you really did was show everyone what a big deal YOU want to make of your orientation in front of others.

Aside from that, of all the churches I’ve been to, the Catholic Church is much less worried about homosexuality than the others.

 

[DeoSalvatoreMeo]

Why do you define yourself as a homosexual? That self-identification is making a statement to others that you are not in line with Church teaching, even if you are actually celibate. It’s taken as a political statement. If you fully believed in the Church’s teaching on homosexuality, you would identify as a man (assuming you are male) who amongst many other personality traits has SSA. You would not make it your identity. I hope I am articulating this so that you understand me. Why is your homosexual self-identification such an important component of who you are so that this is how you present yourself to strangers? Don’t you have something larger to share with the Church? Your attractions should not be the main focus of your life and the image of yourself that you present to the world.

 

[VicTorDominican]

…some people in the Church…

What I’m about to say, I mean no offense at all, I’m just talking honestly about how I feel.

I’ve noticed that a lot of homosexuals complain that everybody hates them, or at least doesn’t love them enough. I really have no clue what that’s supposed to mean. But to be perfectly frank, I have been deeply offended at a lot of the things many homosexuals have said about us. And I mean that sincerely.

It really hurts me to hear that I, as a heterosexual, do not love homosexuals enough, or that I hate them, or that I deny them rights, or that I am a homophobe. Actually, the accusations are so constant and so shrill and come from so many quarters that I’m kind of getting beyond hurt, and getting frankly a little cynical, because it’s beginning to take on the proportions of what Adolf Hitler called “The Big Lie”, which is a blatant lie that is so big and that is told so often that eventually everyone starts believing it (cf. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lie).

I for one am just plain tired of the seething, boiling hate that is focused at heterosexual society, at the Church, and even at me personally by people I don’t even know, and I even get accused of secretly being gay, because apparently if I dare to feel differently I must therefore automatically be a secret, self-hating homosexual in denial.

I am deeply offended at the suggestion that I am incapable of showing love to homosexuals. I really cannot believe anyone could make such a hateful and evil accusation against me and my brothers in Christ. That is a Big Lie. And I am going to label it that. Because that’s what it is. A Big, Colossal, Humongous, Lie.

I don’t know about other people, but I for one have noticed two important things about talking about personal issues. First, I personally get uncomfortable when people come up to me and start talking about their personal issues with me as if they want to get some sort of consolation out of me. Because to me, I don’t want to say that I don’t care, it’s just that it is none of my business and I don’t understand why they are trying to force me to make it my business. And second, when I have made the mistake of doing that to other people, I have gotten the cold shoulder, or at least a polite dismissal. But after thinknig about it I realized what I was doing and after that I just keep certain things to myself. Because after all, why should I make it other people’s business? Personally I don’t understand why everyone has to know, or needs to know, personal stuff about me, and again to be frank, I don’t see how I am entitled to other people’s pity/compassion/consolation or whatever just because I don’t know the meaning of the word discretion.

However I can understand why people are driven, almost as it were under some sort of compulsion, to make it other people’s business. If you define yourself or make your “identity” or whatever totally revolve around some personal issue you have, I can see how bringing it up with other people can be an attempt at getting other people to acknowledge you and affirm your self-worth as a person. But is that how affirmation is supposed to work? I don’t mean to sound callous, but it doesn’t work that way in my world. Actually I take that back: rather I should say, it hasn’t worked that way since … and please, please don’t take this the wrong way … but it hasn’t worked that way since I was a child.

Fine, accuse me of accusing homosexuals of being childish. Whatever, I’m just saying what I feel, I’m just reporting on what I’ve seen and experienced, and if you like you can accuse me of not having seen enough or experienced enough. Just remember that it cuts both ways.

I have a list too. Here’s what I wish the homosexual community would do:

1. Condemn, loudly, and constantly, the sexual abuse of minors, especially the abuse commited by Catholic priests. I have never, ever heard any voice coming from the homosexual community that has ever done this.
2. Condemn hatred of, and discrimination against, heterosexuals for being heterosexual.
3. Condemn the abuse of, denigration of, and degeneration of, heterosexual marriage, including divorce and fornication.
4. Condemn the glorfication of sexual immorality in our culture, especially in mass media such as television and advertising.
5. Support and fund programs and other efforts that serve the needs of people who wish to make a transition from homosexuality to heterosexuality.
6. Tell the truth about the homosexual subculture.

Ok I’ve finished my cigarette, the target’s around my neck, and I’m blindfolded against the wall.

 

[HairyBalls]

u hurt my feelings I am gay I am going to commit suicide right now sad face :’([SIGN]THE HOMOSEXUAL LIFE IS THE LIFE FOR ME[/SIGN]

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

VicTorDominican

1. Been there,
2. [citation needed]
3. Indeed, you will probably that faithful Catholics with SSA will tend to not only heavily bash “gay marriage”, but also are heavily against divorce.
4. I condemn it like every other day
5. no comment
6. I’ve rather loudly denounced the LGBT community on quite a few occasions

so yeah.

Actually most of the religious people in the US assume that

Everywhere has inconsiderate jerks

Many Catholics believe that people with SSA are simply broken heterosexuals and if you find what broke them you can fix them and they’ll be heterosexual again.

Congratz, you are a pariah, don’t worry, it’s not like those parents pull away their children because they think you’ll molest their precious Jimmy.

Cardinal Levada might be a person to try to get to comment, he was Archbishop of San Francisco so he might be able to understand

There are plenty of homophobes in the Church (by homophobe I mean those with a WBC mentality), the Church itself doesn’t care that much.

Yes you make some people uncomfortable, some view you with disdain. It’s a lot easier to bash the LGBT community than work on dealing with the problem.

 

[mrld20]

So what. Fine there are homosexuals out there. Now what?

Again, who cares? There are heterosexuals out there too. Who cares?! You as an individual appear to be making more out of this than most. Your sexual orientation is none of my business. Why do you feel inclined to share it? Do I, as a heterosexual come here and feel the need to share my heterosexuality?

Again, that is because people don’t want it thrown on them. It may be hard to believe, but perhaps your sexuality is not at the top of everyone’s “I Have To Know List.”

No one expects you to lie. How about this… you share your story with those people who ask. To those who don’t ask, you stay out of their face. As far as violence and abuse, where did that come from? The Church does not support violence or abuse against homosexuals.

That is really ridiculous. First, the Church has and will continue to condemn violence and hatred against all groups of people. Why should homosexuals have their own special distinction in this area? Why can’t the Church simply say that abusing another person is wrong. Why do you want a special class for homosexuals where the Church must specify each and every category lest one group of people feel left out? Second, ANY & ALL suicides are sad and the Church doesn’t want ANYONE to do this. But again, you seem to be suggesting that special mention must take place when the person(s) happen to be homosexual. Really?! Why are you suggesting that homosexuals get special mention?

Really?! Evidence to support your claim?!

Well… here’s my thought. How is it that the people at your parish even know your sexual orientation? Are you dressing appropriately for Mass? Have you been “sharing” with those who don’t want to be shared with? Do everyone a favor and have some class… keep your private life private.

No… most of us just don’t care. We are neither intimidated nor desiring to learn how to “deal with the homosexual issue.” Let’s say I was an alcoholic. Should you be called alcophobic if you didn’t want me in your face all the time? Should you have to feel obligated to “deal with” me because I drink?

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My own parents told my own parish about me…

 

[mrld20]

And I don’t just “define” myself as a homosexual… I also define myself as someone who mentally ill, loves to read, loves to go to mass, loves volunteering, loves his siblings, loves to eat ( ), and who loves his dogs…

I don’t just define myself by my sexuality… I define myself by who I am and what I like… My SSA is just one part of me that makes me who I am… A child of God…

And just is just a rant out of frustration… No need to jump down my throat…

 

[Michael_Francis]

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