Profession of Faith, Allelujah, breaking of bread changed at Mass?

[Peace-bwu]

Our “Air Force” family moved 6 mos ago & we’re trying to decide which Catholic Church in our area is best for us. I tend to gravitate toward where I am needed the most, as an RE instructor or other volunteer needs.

We are devout Catholics, study the Catechism, Scripture, love theology and have studied Vat 2 extensively. We pray as a family, teach our kids, they go to RE, faithfully, etc.

I enjoy praise & worship music as long as it is approved & follows Catholic teaching.

PROBLEM WE FACED at Mass today:
St. Ann’s Catholic Church in Gulf Breeze, FL has a “praise” Mass. I enjoy praise music and agree with Vat 2 allowing contemporary music as long as the structure and integrity of the Mass is upheld.

At first we were enjoying the music and it seemed to fit into the Mass nicely. Then came time for the Gospel Reading.

The Hallelujah was sung to the tune of Leonard Cohen’s song by the same title. (the one in Shrek) I tried to give it a chance but couldn’t avoid thinking of the lyrics to the Cohen song which is highly questionable for Mass. (rather depressing & controversial song about a woman robbing a man of his dignity & questions God existence.) The “band” (more like a band than a choir) changed the words which I think were made up by the Church choir, something botched together about being Catholic. What’s wrong with just singing Allelujah? They proceded to play “background music” the whole time the priest read the Gospel, (which wasn’t bad, but distracting. can’t we just focus on the gospel?)

My husband and I were willing to possibly overlook that and think about it some before we made any criticism. BUT then came the “Profession of Faith” played by the upbeat praise band. This is how it went:

"Do you believe in God the Father, Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth?

CHORUS: Amen, Amen, Amen, Amen, Amen, We do believe (right hand held up by everyone in congregation, including priest)

"Do you believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son our Lord, Who was born of Mary, was crucified and died
And was buried?"

(Music stops, very long dramatic pause here)

Yet, He rose from the dead
And is seated at the right hand of the Father.

(Repeat chorus)

Do you believe in the Holy Spirit,
***The Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of Saints, ***
The forgiveness of sins, Resurrection, and life everlasting?

***(Repeat Chorus) ***

It took me awhile to realize that it was even the “profession of faith”

The band played music through the entire consecration, again distracting. Can’t the consecration, itself, be the center of the universe at that moment, not the band? But that’s not what bothered me so much about the consecration, the “band” changed all the words to prayers in the Memorial Acclimation to something I didn’t recognize.

Then came the breaking of the bread… for me, this is a *very *special prayer. We are joining in with the angels and saints, reciting Scripture in Revelations, where we adore and worship the “Lamb of God” Well, they changed this part too, into something I didnt recognize, totally different words. How can they do this? I thought it was a recitation of Scripture?

During the Consecration, most of the members of the Church put their hands over the Eucharist to bless it from wherever they were standing.

At the end of Mass, my husband and I felt bamboozled. I stopped at the visitor’s podium and a nice lady stopped to welcome me. I asked whether this was really a Catholic Church or whether it is a spin off. She said that the version of the “Profession of Faith” is the one they use during Baptisms. (It’s not,exactly) I asked her why they don’t say “Apostolic” in the part of the song where it says “Do you believe in one holy Catholic Church?” why it doesn’t say virgin Mary? And why they changed what the people are supposed to say during the breaking of the bread.

Her answer: "Well you need to come to the more traditional Mass on Saturday nights. We’ve been to that one and it is, but there were very few members. it was mostly elderly and tourists. (Thank God for the Elderly, that’s what this 33 year old lady says! )Why should the normal, Traditional Mass be the* exception* on Saturday nights?

Does anyone know about the “Profession of Faith” being changed for certain types of approved Masses? I know the laypeople laying their hands over the Eucharist is wrong, but does anyone know about the prayer at the Breaking of the Bread allowed to be changed? I’m young, enjoy appropriate praise music, but this was upsetting!

 

[Peace-bwu]

I’ know that the Profession of Faith is not always said during weekdays, or when the Baptismal Promises are professed. This was a song with the title “Profession of Faith” included in a song book made by the parish, which they sang usual time for the Creed, Profession.

If the Baptismal promises are renewed during a Mass, shouldn’t it be in the usual form of the Priest asking the usual questions with the congregation responding “I do?” The usual questions were not asked, such as “Do you reject Satan and all his empty promises?” etc. and it was the choir singing the “questions” with everyone holding up their right hands and singing the “Chorus.”

This was a very watered down version of some kind of bastardization of the Creed in the form of questions. It was not like any “Baptismal Promises” I have ever heard.

 

[Phemie]

Music during the Gospel and during the Eucharistic prayer is forbidden by the GIRM:

1. Among the parts assigned to the priest, the foremost is the Eucharistic Prayer, which is the high point of the entire celebration. Next are the orations: that is to say, the collect, the prayer over the offerings, and the prayer after Communion. These prayers are addressed to God in the name of the entire holy people and all present, by the priest who presides over the assembly in the person of Christ.43 It is with good reason, therefore, that they are called the “presidential prayers.”

1. The nature of the “presidential” texts demands that they be spoken in a loud and clear voice and that everyone listen with attention.44 Thus, while the priest is speaking these texts, there should be no other prayers or singing, and the organ or other musical instruments should be silent.

 

[Peace-bwu]

I thought there were rules against playing music during the Gospel and prayers during consecration, thanks!

My husband and I were rather thrown by this Mass and plan to address it with the Bishop. It’s a shame, but I guess this is the duty of laypeople when they witness a Church straying so far from the Mass. I think it makes matters even worse that this is a Church which attracts a lot of tourists to Pensacola Beach. It literally broke my heart today that the Mass was so “fooled with.” I’m sure the people who do the music and make the decisions have the best of intentions, but they are apparently trying to improve on things that need no improvement. My husband is a convert and, being in the military, he has been to Catholic Masses all over the world, it’s a comfort that even when he is at Mass where they speak a foreign language, it’s the same Mass and he can follow along. Even in the most “liberal” of American Catholic Churches, he has never seen anything this far off the mark. Like he said, it’s very misleading to people who think they are going to a Catholic Church to find themselves sitting in a pew during a Mass that strays far from the rest of the Catholic Masses around the world.

 

[benedictgal]

As for the other indescripancies you described, regarding the Creed, Redemptionis Sacramentum notes that:

[69.] In Holy Mass as well as in other celebrations of the Sacred Liturgy, no Creed or Profession of Faith is to be introduced which is not found in the duly approved liturgical books.

Now, regarding the Fraction Rite, I am a little confused about this business of “laying hands”. According to RS:

[73.] In the celebration of Holy Mass the breaking of the Eucharistic Bread - done only by the Priest celebrant, if necessary with the help of a Deacon or of a concelebrant - begins after the exchange of peace, while the Agnus Dei is being recited. For the gesture of breaking bread “carried out by Christ at the Last Supper, which in apostolic times gave the whole Eucharistic action its name, signifies that the faithful, though they are many, are made one Body in the communion of the one Bread of Life who is Christ, who died and rose for the world’s salvation” (cf. I Cor 10:17).153 For this reason the rite must be carried out with great reverence.154 Even so, it should be brief. The abuse that has prevailed in some places, by which this rite is unnecessarily prolonged and given undue emphasis, with laypersons also helping in contradiction to the norms, should be corrected with all haste.155

Regarding the Agnus Dei, RS makes some general references to the prayers of the Mass:

[31.] In keeping with the solemn promises that they have made in the rite of Sacred Ordination and renewed each year in the Mass of the Chrism, let Priests celebrate “devoutly and faithfully the mysteries of Christ for the praise of God and the sanctification of the Christian people, according to the tradition of the Church, especially in the Eucharistic Sacrifice and in the Sacrament of Reconciliation”.71 They ought not to detract from the profound meaning of their own ministry by corrupting the liturgical celebration either through alteration or omission, or through arbitrary additions.72 For as Saint Ambrose said, “It is not in herself … but in us that the Church is injured. Let us take care so that our own failure may not cause injury to the Church”.73 Let the Church of God not be injured, then, by Priests who have so solemnly dedicated themselves to the ministry. Indeed, under the Bishop’s authority let them faithfully seek to prevent others as well from committing this type of distortion.

On the question of appropriate music, Pope Benedict XVI makes perfectly clear in Sacramentum Caritatis that:

Liturgical song

1. In the ars celebrandi, liturgical song has a pre-eminent place. (126) Saint Augustine rightly says in a famous sermon that “the new man sings a new song. Singing is an expression of joy and, if we consider the matter, an expression of love” (127). The People of God assembled for the liturgy sings the praises of God. In the course of her two-thousand-year history, the Church has created, and still creates, music and songs which represent a rich patrimony of faith and love. This heritage must not be lost. Certainly as far as the liturgy is concerned, we cannot say that one song is as good as another. Generic improvisation or the introduction of musical genres which fail to respect the meaning of the liturgy should be avoided. As an element of the liturgy, song should be well integrated into the overall celebration (128). Consequently everything – texts, music, execution – ought to correspond to the meaning of the mystery being celebrated, the structure of the rite and the liturgical seasons (129). Finally, while respecting various styles and different and highly praiseworthy traditions, I desire, in accordance with the request advanced by the Synod Fathers, that Gregorian chant be suitably esteemed and employed (130) as the chant proper to the Roman liturgy (131).

The Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist considered the music used at Youth Masses (the P&W genre) to be a shadow to the Mass and found it very problematic. The Church does have her standards on sacred music.

 

[agapewolf]

The renewal of baptismal promises maybe substituted in for the profession of faith, usually when there is a reason (As in a baptism). A youth mass might be considered a reason.

The song you have spelled out is the renewal of baptismal promises.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Hi! I lived in Milton in my early, younger adult years, about 26 miles or so up the road from where you are now. So I understand about things being a tad different in northwest Florida. Wait until you encounter all the people from churches who are not Catholic, and are anti-Catholic!

I suggest you go to Mass on base, or drive to another parish, say in Pensacola, only 15 mintues away. I don’t think the Diocese of Pensacola-Tallahassee is very concerned about boundaries. Go someplace where you are comfortable, in the sense of not having to be at a Mass where you are exposed to this sort of thing. If you don’t want to drive to Ft. Walton, NAS Pensacola has a Catholic chapel.

And don’t be afraid to tell the local bishop what you witnessed!

I did a look-through of the parishes, and there are some that appear orthodox in Pensacola.

 

[Peace-bwu]

Hi! I lived in Milton in my early, younger adult years, about 26 miles or so up the road from where you are now. So I understand about things being a tad different in northwest Florida. Wait until you encounter all the people from churches who are not Catholic, and are anti-Catholic!

I suggest you go to Mass on base, or drive to another parish, say in Pensacola, only 15 mintues away. I don’t think the Diocese of Pensacola-Tallahassee is very concerned about boundaries. Go someplace where you are comfortable, in the sense of not having to be at a Mass where you are exposed to this sort of thing. If you don’t want to drive to Ft. Walton, NAS Pensacola has a Catholic chapel.

And don’t be afraid to tell the local bishop what you witnessed!

I did a look-through of the parishes, and there are some that appear orthodox in Pensacola.

thank you! We lived in this area 8 years ago and have just moved back. We had a difficult time finding a Catholic Church the last time and went to the one in Ft. Walton, I think it’s called St. Peters. We then moved to Navarre and joined St. Sylvesters. St. Sylvesters follows all the norms,etc. they’ve also also building a new church and there for at least 10 years, so alot of focus is on the new buildings & church. We’ve been going there for 6mos and just keep feeling out of place. We just wanted to check out some other CCs in the area and make sure we are where we need to be. I will check out some of the Catholic Churches in Pensacola, but am thinking St. Sylvesters is probably the best for our family.

 

[rwoehmke]

I tend to be rather laid back about occasional minor abuses in a Mass, but this place sounds very retro. Something one might have encountered in the 70’s until the liturgical “experimentation” settled down a little. It would make me very uncomfortable.

 

[Peace-bwu]

I tend to be rather laid back about occasional minor abuses in a Mass, but this place sounds very retro. Something one might have encountered in the 70’s until the liturgical “experimentation” settled down a little. It would make me very uncomfortable.

Exactly,

I must say that it was pretty bad that I had the words to Leonard Cohen’s “Hallelujah” stuck in my mind after hearing that tune during Mass, even though they changed the words. Sheesh!

 

[Peace-bwu]

[sign]
**LEONARD COHEN LYRICS

"Hallelujah"

Now I’ve heard there was a secret chord
That David played, and it pleased the Lord
But you don’t really care for music, do you?
It goes like this
The fourth, the fifth
The minor fall, the major lift
The baffled king composing Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah

Your faith was strong but you needed proof
You saw her bathing on the roof
Her beauty and the moonlight overthrew you
She tied you
To a kitchen chair
She broke your throne, and she cut your hair
And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah

Baby I have been here before
I know this room, I’ve walked this floor
I used to live alone before I knew you.
I’ve seen your flag on the marble arch
Love is not a victory march
It’s a cold and it’s a broken Hallelujah

Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah

There was a time you let me know
What’s real and going on below
But now you never show it to me, do you?
And remember when I moved in you
The holy dove was moving too
And every breath we drew was Hallelujah

Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah

You say I took the name in vain
I don’t even know the name
But if I did, well really, what’s it to you?
There’s a blaze of light
In every word
It doesn’t matter which you heard
The holy or the broken Hallelujah

Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah

I did my best, it wasn’t much
I couldn’t feel, so I tried to touch
I’ve told the truth, I didn’t come to fool you
And even though
It all went wrong
I’ll stand before the Lord of Song
With nothing on my tongue but Hallelujah

Hallelujah (Chorus)

Maybe there’s a God above
And all I ever learned from love
Was how to shoot at someone who outdrew you
It’s not a cry you can hear at night
It’s not somebody who’s seen the light
it’s a cold and it’s a broken Hallelujah

Hallelujah (Chorus)
**[/sign]

Now, common! Are these the lyrics I should have stuck in my mind for three days after Mass? Thats idiotic.

 

[benedictgal]

[Edited]

Now, common! Are these the lyrics I should have stuck in my mind for three days after Mass? Thats idiotic.

That’s not even an approved Gospel acclamation. The Gospel acclamation is supposed to have the Alleluia chanted three times, then the versicle is chanted, and then the triple Alleluia is repeated. During Lent, the cantor has the option of four different Gospel Acclamations from whcih to choose.

Why people don’t just read the GIRM is beyond me.