Pronunciation of Arabic/Aramaic variants of the bible

[Huiou_Theou]

Hi,

I’m exploring musical arrangements that might be used for meditation in a Maronite rite church. And I don’t know enough about Arabic or Aramaic to be able to read the script, but I am able to find the bible in Aramaic (Peshitta), in block script using Hebrew letters, which I can read. So I was wondering if there was anyone who might give me a few hints about basic pronunciation.

There are several phrases I’d like be able to pronounce, the first would be “And holy, holy, holy is His name”.

From the Peshitta, I see the phrase looks like:
ו-קד’ש קד’ש קד’ש שמה

I would assume it transliterates phonetically like:
“?] kahdEsh kahdEsh kahdEsh shem?]”

But, the leading uav/waw letter (meaning “and”) – how is it pronounced? Does it make a U/“ooh” sound, or a “V” sound, followed by some implied vowel?

And the last word, “name”, I think is “sem” or “shem”, but how is the final “he” pronounced?
Is there a leading vowel sound like “semeh” or “semah” ?

I’m not sure how familiar Arabic speakers are with the Aramaic, although I assume some phrases are so well known that people would understand what was said; but If I were to attempt to use Arabic, how would the same sentence fragment be pronounced?

Thanks. )

 

[malphono]

I’m exploring musical arrangements that might be used for meditation in a Maronite rite church. And I don’t know enough about Arabic or Aramaic to be able to read the script, but I am able to find the bible in Aramaic (Peshitta), in block script using Hebrew letters, which I can read. So I was wondering if there was anyone who might give me a few hints about basic pronunciation.

There are several phrases I’d like be able to pronounce, the first would be “And holy, holy, holy is His name”.

From the Peshitta, I see the phrase looks like:
ו-קד’ש קד’ש קד’ש שמה

I would assume it transliterates phonetically like:
“?] kahdEsh kahdEsh kahdEsh shem?]”

But, the leading uav/waw letter (meaning “and”) – how is it pronounced? Does it make a U/“ooh” sound, or a “V” sound, followed by some implied vowel?

The Aramaic/Syriac “waw” would be pronounced as a “w” and not a “v” as in Hebrew.

And the last word, “name”, I think is “sem” or “shem”, but how is the final “he” pronounced?
Is there a leading vowel sound like “semeh” or “semah” ?

The terminal “heh” is pronounced as a soft “h” with a short “e” vowel, similar to Hebrew.

I’m not sure how familiar Arabic speakers are with the Aramaic, although I assume some phrases are so well known that people would understand what was said; but If I were to attempt to use Arabic, how would the same sentence fragment be pronounced?

For the sake of clarity, you might want to do it in both languages. In transliterated Arabic (Levantine dialects - not the “standard” literary variety) it would be:

“qoodoos qoodoos qoodoos ismahu”

 

[Huiou_Theou]

The Aramaic/Syriac “waw” would be pronounced as a “w” and not a “v” as in Hebrew.

OK.
But there are two consonants in a row, then: WkadEsh
There is going to be a partially voiced vowel when I try to transition from W to K.
Should that sound more like “wakadEsh kadEsh kadesh semeh”, or “wukadEsh …”

For the sake of clarity, you might want to do it in both languages. In transliterated Arabic (Levantine dialects - not the “standard” literary variety) it would be:

“qoodoos qoodoos qoodoos ismahu”

Yes, I think I probably will.
In Arabic, then, is the “and” also going to be pronounced “waqoodoos …” or ?

Thanks.

 

[malphono]

OK.
But there are two consonants in a row, then: WkadEsh
There is going to be a partially voiced vowel when I try to transition from W to K.
Should that sound more like “wakadEsh kadEsh kadesh semeh”, or “wukadEsh …”

The latter. The partially vocalized vowel is indeed very short.

BTW, I seem to have neglected the consonant question earlier. The “shin” in Syro-Aramaic always takes the “sh” sound.

Yes, I think I probably will.
In Arabic, then, is the “and” also going to be pronounced “waqoodoos …” or ?

Thanks.

Here a very short “a” vowel just to elide the two consonants would be best.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

OK.

So now I’m really probably going to slaughter the translation in trying to make it fit the melody; so if my grammar is wrong, or the connotations are totally off, let me know…
I’m trying to piece it together from various scripture sources, preserving most of the idioms where possible… (Don’t laugh… too hard…

I’m writing out crude phonetics… correct away

My soul proclaims the awe of the Lord
تعظم نفسي رهبة الرب
ta-EEzzam nafsi rahbat ahl-rrab

And my spirit exalts in God my Savior
وروحي يرفع شأن بالله مخلصي
w rruhi yarfae shan bialllah mukhallihs (E? or i)

For He has looked with mercy on my lowliness
??? …Difficult to get the rhythm/meter similar…???

And my name will be forever exalted
وسيتم تعالى اسمي إلى الأبد
w sayatimm tAEala ismi 'iilaa al’abad

For the mighty God has done great things for me
لأَنَّ الْقَدِيرَ صَنَعَ بِي عَظَائِمَ،
l’ann alqadir sanAe bi Ezah-yEma

And His mercy will reach from age to age
ورحمته من عصر إلى عصر
wu rahmatih man EEsr 'iilaa EEsr

And holy, holy, holy is His name
וקד’ש קד’ש קד’ש שמה
WukahdEsh kahdEsh kahdEsh semeh
WaQoodoos Qoodoos Qoodoos ismahu

 

[Huiou_Theou]

I think I might have a close enough translation; but I don’t have enough sentences to know if I’m picking the exact right words to get the grammar right.

I think: “For he has looked with mercy on my lowliness”
coule be rearranged as “Because of mercy ?he?] sees my humility.”

لأن الرحمة يرى بلدي التواضع
li’ann al-rrah-mat yar-ah bal-a-di alt-ta-wah-due

Am I even close?
Thanks for all the help.

 

[malphono]

I’m not at all sure exactly what you’re trying to do. What’s wrong with the Magnificat as it is?

 

[Huiou_Theou]

I’m not at all sure exactly what you’re trying to do. What’s wrong with the Magnificat as it is?

Absolutely nothing, obviously.
There is an artist, John Michael Talbot, who wrote a melody and modified the English wording of the Magnificat to go with it.

video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KIo9em9SxWJmgA0OMsnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTBycTlydWI1BHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDOA–?p=John+Michael+Talbot+%22holy+Is+His+Name%22&vid=243cacd34419ae57ced1e6628676064e&turl=http%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DWN.fevIidAU2qHLKKe5F%252boOPA%26pid%3D15.1%26h%3D225%26w%3D300%26c%3D7%26rs%3D1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DV9O-lwIFXFM&tit=Holy+is+His+Name&c=7&h=225&w=300&l=211&sigr=11b8i4h2m&sigt=10gaklc3h&sigi=12np5edd7&age=1391507923&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=yhs-mozilla-002&hsimp=yhs-002&hspart=mozilla&tt=b

Many of the people at the Maronite church don’t understand english, but only arabic, and I’m not entirely sure if there is a dialect issue – as they are, of course, mostly from Lebanon.

There is also a nun, who takes the name “Miriam scharbel”, who is consecrated in a group/(order?) of prayer which happens to be associated with John Michael Talbot.

So, I thought being able to sing this peice of Talbot’s music in arabic/aramaic which is closer to the tradition of the Maronite rite would be something that many at the church would enjoy. I already have Talbot’s version of the English, of course.

But: The Arabic, as written in (for example) the Coptic Orthodox version of the bible does not have the correct number of syllables (or even close) in some of the music’s verses to be able to be sung.

 

[malphono]

OK, that clarifies things, but I’m afraid I can’t be any help.