Proof That God is Not Omniscient?

[Cattitude]

I was on another website’s forum today and came across a non-Catholic who used the following scripture passages to indicate that God is not omniscient:

Genesis 6:5-6

When the LORD saw how great was man’s wickedness on earth, and how no desire that his heart conceived was ever anything but evil, he regretted that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was grieved.

and

Jeremiah 32:35

They built high places to Baal in the Valley of Ben-hinnom, and immolated their sons and daughters to Molech, bringing sin upon Judah; this I never commanded them, nor did it even enter my mind that they should practice such abominations.

This individual claims that these 2 passages show that God didn’t know what was coming.

What would be a good defense of God’s omniscience here?

 

[teachccd]

Psalm 139

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Neither passage ‘proves’ God’s non-omniscience.

First, that God has ‘regret’ is attempting to express in ‘human’ terms how God ‘sees’ humanity acting–and does not at all prove He ‘didn’t see it coming’. Au contraire, He** did** see it coming and apparently even with everybody but Noah and family having turned their backs on Him, the creation of humanity was still ‘good’ enough that God saved Noah and sent His Son to redeem humanity in the fullness of time–yes, even when humanity was ‘still wicked’, ‘still sinners’.

So that first example proves nothing.

The second uses a ‘translation’ for ‘enter my mind’ that is somewhat different from the passage in my Douay -Rheims:

And they have built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Ennom, to consecrate their sons and their daughters to Moloch: which I commanded them not, neither entered it into my heart, that they should do this abomination, and cause Juda to sin.

There is a difference, and whichever way you take it–heart or mind–does not indicate that God ‘didn’t see it coming’. Thing is, God is ‘all good’. God does not have evil ‘in His mind or heart’ at all. Knowledge of evil is not the same as entertaining evil–and for God to ‘impute’, or ‘think’ of the possibility of evil would be impossible. He would always know that people could choose evil, yet the idea of Him actually ‘conceiving’ of them choosing evil (as opposed to Him knowing that they would) never could, or would, be in His mind or heart, because He is God.

I repeat-neither passage says what the detractors purport them to say–neither passage proves that God is not omniscent.

 

[Cattitude]

Thanks for the reference to Psalm 139, teach ccd.

Tantum ergo (or any other takers ):
OK, the first example, I think I got. I think about it this way: when your 94 year old grandmother dies, you still grieve, even though you knew it was coming. And you don’t regret the relationship you had even though it ended (at least the earthly part). Does that sound about right?

The second part, I’m still trying to wrap my brain around. God is all good, so the the “idea” of man actually choosing to commit evil acts could not enter His mind or heart? But He knows that the possibility of man choosing evil does exist?

Maybe I’m just being thick. But I think this person will still say that God is not omniscient because there are aspects of humanity, namely “evil” that He cannot know.

What am I missing here?

 

[LilyM]

The second uses a ‘translation’ for ‘enter my mind’ that is somewhat different from the passage in my Douay -Rheims:

There is a difference, and whichever way you take it–heart or mind–does not indicate that God ‘didn’t see it coming’. Thing is, God is ‘all good’. God does not have evil ‘in His mind or heart’ at all. Knowledge of evil is not the same as entertaining evil–and for God to ‘impute’, or ‘think’ of the possibility of evil would be impossible. He would always know that people could choose evil, yet the idea of Him actually ‘conceiving’ of them choosing evil (as opposed to Him knowing that they would) never could, or would, be in His mind or heart, because He is God.

I repeat-neither passage says what the detractors purport them to say–neither passage proves that God is not omniscent.

I actually have a different take on this. If it says ‘it never entered my heart that they SHOULD do such a thing’, well the word SHOULD can imply a positive condoning or approval or desiring of the behaviour - as when a parent says to their child ‘you should study/clean your room/eat your vegetables’.

Given the context, that its starts with God saying He never ordered the human sacrifices, the passage may well simply be going a small sletep further and saying that He never even WANTED them done or approved of their being done or desired them to be done - not that he literally never thought they would happen.

S’pose we’d need to go back to the original language to get the true sense of it.

 

[Cattitude]

Given the context, that its starts with God saying He never ordered the human sacrifices, the passage may well simply be going a small sletep further and saying that He never even WANTED them done or approved of their being done or desired them to be done - not that he literally never thought they would happen.

S’pose we’d need to go back to the original language to get the true sense of it.

Thanks, LilyM. That makes perfect sense to me! It’s amazing how you can get stuck on one meaning of the words until you start discussing it with other people.