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HumblePilgrim
Guest
I have a question. Is it proper for a RCIA to be taught with the bible only and no mention of the catechism except to use it only as a resource for more “intellectual” information about the Church?
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
There is an approach to RCIA known as “Lectionary Based” using the Sunday readings to guide the process. However the Catechism is the foundation for all Catechesis in the Catholic Church.
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HumblePilgrim
Guest
We are not using the Catechism in any part of the RCIA process. We are using the Bible which is fine. But it is not based on the sunday readings. It is based on whatever sections of the Bible that relate to our topic.
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
The Church in it’s Catechetical documents (The General Directory for Catechesis and the National Directory for Catechesis) does not agree with a Catectetical process that does not have it’s foundation in the Catechism.
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puzzleannie
Guest
ordinarily RCIA instruction derives primarily from the Sunday lectionary readings so that is correct as far as it goes. Yes there also needs to be systematic catechesis on doctrine and most guides used for this purpose relate the readings to the relevant catechism topics and citations. If the lesson does not make the link between the scripture and the doctrine in some way, the candidates are getting less than their due, but basing catechesis on the lectionary is legitimate. However simply telling candidates to read those sections in the catechism is really not enough as the book is hard enough to follow even for someone with a good grounding in the faith.
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PJM
Guest
Hi,
I’m unsure what is meant by “intellectual” information.
In the current time there are priest and leaders of RCIA programs, who are quite comfortable with making the Catholic Church as similar in all respects to Protestant churches as possible. Such may be the case here, but I certainly do not know that to be true.
The Magesterium desires that both the Bible and the Catecheism be used. However there use is not identical. Ideally when a teaching is brought up in the Bible that has a CCC reference, such should be made.
The bible is to be heard and read, while the Catechism is intended as a reference, explaination, and defining tool.
Trying to avoid use of the Catechism, unless a priest is present to provide similar information is not a good idea, and not in line with the desires of the Magesterium. The candidates are being short changed.
Only in both can the truth be made clear.
Is you’re Pastor aware of this practice?
Love and prayers,
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HumblePilgrim
Guest
I think what my catechists mean by intellectual information is that it should only be consulted as a reference book. We do some bible readings, sometimes. We do not have a textbook. We do have a syllabus but the style is very free flow. I did much self-education before beginning RCIA however, I know that some of the things the teachers have said are not doctrinally sound. Since no one has a catechism nor are we required to read or own a catechism I wonder how proper this sort of setup is. We neither take notes. I am not sure if the priests are aware that this is how class is being taught. The catechists have been doing this for a few years now.
I tend to go home and thumb through my catechism to find out if things that were said conform to doctrine. Many times they don’t and I worry about our proper faith formation.
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
Your probably are not alone, many RCIA processes have been shown to be lacking in content. It is true that adults do learn differently then children in a classroom, most adults leanr better with discussion. With our process there was always many handout materials to take home read and then discuss with your sponsor over the next week. All handout materials had to reference the proper CCC paragraph numbers.
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mandateman
Guest
I was educated with the old reliable Baltimore Cathecism. It was replaced in my country Canada, by another cathecism approved by the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops which was used for about thirty years to teach all the children. Until it was finally condemned by the Catholic church when concerned parents sent copies to Rome. It was again replaced by the next cathecism approved by the CCCB and it only took five years to be condemned. Both were concidered to be anti-catholic.
In Canada we have as many as 90% of catholic people in some provinces who no longer attend mass. Of the groups that do most have no idea what the church actually teaches and are unaware even of basic catholic teaching. So cathecism is truly essential to building catholic character.
The direction we are going is steered by leaders that cannot all be trusted on a local level but the church is always steered perfectly by the pope. John Paul 2 created the new cathecism because of the abuses involved in the education of its members and approved by many Bishops.
The RCIA system if it is turning out good catholic persons with a good foundation “a house built on a solid foundation.” should prepare the individual for the trials ahead. If they are creating more of the luke warm catholics our church is full of then it has failed in its purpose.
In Canada we have as many as 90% of catholic people in some provinces who no longer attend mass. Of the groups that do most have no idea what the church actually teaches and are unaware even of basic catholic teaching. So cathecism is truly essential to building catholic character.
The direction we are going is steered by leaders that cannot all be trusted on a local level but the church is always steered perfectly by the pope. John Paul 2 created the new cathecism because of the abuses involved in the education of its members and approved by many Bishops.
The RCIA system if it is turning out good catholic persons with a good foundation “a house built on a solid foundation.” should prepare the individual for the trials ahead. If they are creating more of the luke warm catholics our church is full of then it has failed in its purpose.
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PJM
Guest
May God continue to protect our Faith. Here in America only 77% don’t practice
But many are working to catch up with you.
God promised that His Chruch will never die, but makes no promises for specific countries. Look at Spain and Itlay for example.
We must live our faith publically as “lamps on the hillside.”
Love and prayers,
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fdesales
Guest
It is hard to guage how much of a teaching is from the Bible “alone” and whether the Catechism was used in the making of the class. I know this because I am an RCIA Coordinator…
Unfortunately, there is no standardized classes. I had to build my classes up from scratch. The Catechism and the Bible are the sources of the Church’s teachings. During the course of my class, however, I do not necessarily quote the Catechism every time I refer to the teachings on the Trinity, for example. It should be understood by the class that you are indeed teaching the Catholic faith - which is NOT Bible alone.
The Catechism itself does explain in more detail the elements of the faith. However, the RCIA is NOT MEANT to be an in-depth theological class. The purpose is to introduce the faith and from there, to make it a part of our lives. This is how we experience Christ, not by memorizing the Catechism.
For example, last night, I gave a teaching on the Trinity… About a half an hour lecture. Of course, I did NOT cover every aspect of this mystery in 30 minutes! Remember, some of these people never HEARD of Trinity before last night… Thus, it is going to be pretty basic. More importantly, we then broke into groups and discussed some questions I prepared for another 30-40 minutes, so that we could take those teachings and see how they are ALREADY part of our lives. We already are experiencing God and recognizing He is Trinity makes the teaching come alive in our daily walk.
That is the point of RCIA - sacramental formation and the experience of Jesus Christ through these visible signs. NOT to be able to give a theological treatise on esoteric subjects that are not part of one’s life, one’s walk. Dogmas belong in our lives, not in a book…
Regards
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