"Prophecy"...a Catholic viewpoint?

[RHC]

First, I apologize if this doesn’t really belong in the Apologetics thread, but I put it here because I figured you all would have the most experience in this issue, which deals with evangelical Protestants.

Quick background: I am a convert; my husband and I “swam the Tiber” in 2009. We grew up in a church that can best be described as evangelical Protestant - an interesting mix of charismatic and Southern Baptist traditions with a bit of Calvinism thrown in for good measure. Prophecy and prophets were a regular part of this church, with alleged prophets being brought in and also church members “given words” (church members shared what they felt were prophecies given them). My husband and I were both “prophesied over” many times, and, so far, none of the things said have proven to be very accurate. Well, one prophet told my husband (at 14 or 15) that he would marry a “beautiful woman”… In all seriousness, most of the prophecies have either failed to be correct or must have been VERY allegorical. However, we were also given a significant fear of criticizing “prophets” (see I Thessalonians 5:20) and “despising prophecy.”

Fast forward to today. I must confess that after years of prophets and prophecies, I view them all with a skeptical eye. I appreciate that the Catholic Church does not require the faithful to believe in specific apparitions or locutions; I want to believe, for example, in the Blessed Mother’s approved apparitions, but I am still very wary. May God help my unbelief…

My MIL, who is a Protestant, sends me all of these “prophecies” that her church (the church I grew up in) is espousing right now. Most of them, of course, have to do with apocalyptic themes. I tend to roll my eyes and delete the e-mails.

My instinct is to cling to the Magisterium (and Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture) - if they haven’t said it, I’m not going to give much credence to it. Am I wrong? Am I incorrect for being extremely skeptical of these “prophecies”? Am I despising prophecies?

 

[Newsy]

You are taking the correct stance on the subject. As long as we follow the Magisterium, we shall never be lost.

20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil.

Your question should be answered by looking at verse 20 with verse 21. Paul is telling the Thessalonians to test all the prophecies and to reject any that contradict Church teaching. So, you should be testing them all and only hold onto the ones that are good.

This teaching by Paul should echo Jesus words from Luke’s gospel, “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit."

If you want to discuss prophecy in modern churches, I will step aside.:slapfight:

 

[JerryZ]

First, I apologize if this doesn’t really belong in the Apologetics thread, but I put it here because I figured you all would have the most experience in this issue, which deals with evangelical Protestants.

Quick background: I am a convert; my husband and I “swam the Tiber” in 2009. We grew up in a church that can best be described as evangelical Protestant - an interesting mix of charismatic and Southern Baptist traditions with a bit of Calvinism thrown in for good measure. Prophecy and prophets were a regular part of this church, with alleged prophets being brought in and also church members “given words” (church members shared what they felt were prophecies given them). My husband and I were both “prophesied over” many times, and, so far, none of the things said have proven to be very accurate. Well, one prophet told my husband (at 14 or 15) that he would marry a “beautiful woman”… In all seriousness, most of the prophecies have either failed to be correct or must have been VERY allegorical. However, we were also given a significant fear of criticizing “prophets” (see I Thessalonians 5:20) and “despising prophecy.”

Fast forward to today. I must confess that after years of prophets and prophecies, I view them all with a skeptical eye. I appreciate that the Catholic Church does not require the faithful to believe in specific apparitions or locutions; I want to believe, for example, in the Blessed Mother’s approved apparitions, but I am still very wary. May God help my unbelief…

My MIL, who is a Protestant, sends me all of these “prophecies” that her church (the church I grew up in) is espousing right now. Most of them, of course, have to do with apocalyptic themes. I tend to roll my eyes and delete the e-mails.

My instinct is to cling to the Magisterium (and Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture) - if they haven’t said it, I’m not going to give much credence to it. Am I wrong? Am I incorrect for being extremely skeptical of these “prophecies”? Am I despising prophecies?

I think that one must be carefull when dealing with prophecies:

I John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

[Steveabrous]

“My instinct is to cling to the Magisterium (and Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture) - if they haven’t said it, I’m not going to give much credence to it.”

You can’t go wrong with this. Looking at “so-called” Prophets with skepicism is very healthy. Even the Magisterium looks at any apperition with skepticism. Most reported prophesies and apperitions are dismissed and we never hear of them. And the ones that they approve are done so with the understanding that they might be wrong. I say to look at the criterium the church uses to authenticate these things a few of which are miricles accompaning them and the prophesies can not be self serving.
There is a difference between being cautious even skeptical and dispising.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

When I explored this issue, my CCD teacher said that if the difference between a prophesy & fortune telling is what the objective leads to. If the vision leads to God for God’s Glory, then It is a prophesy; if not, then it’s fortune telling.

The Sistine Chapel has the pictures of the revered Prophets like Debrah.
mv.vatican.va/3_EN/pages/CSN/CSN_Volta_SibProf.html

Prophets and Sibyls seated on monumental thrones are alternated along the long sides, while the short sides are dominated by the figures of Zachariah and, above the altar, of Jonah (Jonah 1,2), who has a pre-eminent position inasmuch as he is the prefiguration of Christ (Matthew 12,38-40; 16,1-4; Luke 11,29-30). The Prophets and Sibyls are identified by a text in the label below them and are those who were the first to sense the coming of the Redeemer. The Prophets and Sibyls therefore testify as to the continuous wait of mankind for the Redemption. The former did in fact foresee the coming of Christ for the people of Israel. The latter, although belonging to the pagan world, are represented here because of their prophetic gifts, in this way extending the wait for Redemption from the chosen people to all mankind.

 

[robwar]

First, I apologize if this doesn’t really belong in the Apologetics thread, but I put it here because I figured you all would have the most experience in this issue, which deals with evangelical Protestants.

Quick background: I am a convert; my husband and I “swam the Tiber” in 2009. We grew up in a church that can best be described as evangelical Protestant - an interesting mix of charismatic and Southern Baptist traditions with a bit of Calvinism thrown in for good measure. Prophecy and prophets were a regular part of this church, with alleged prophets being brought in and also church members “given words” (church members shared what they felt were prophecies given them). My husband and I were both “prophesied over” many times, and, so far, none of the things said have proven to be very accurate. Well, one prophet told my husband (at 14 or 15) that he would marry a “beautiful woman”… In all seriousness, most of the prophecies have either failed to be correct or must have been VERY allegorical. However, we were also given a significant fear of criticizing “prophets” (see I Thessalonians 5:20) and “despising prophecy.”

Fast forward to today. I must confess that after years of prophets and prophecies, I view them all with a skeptical eye. I appreciate that the Catholic Church does not require the faithful to believe in specific apparitions or locutions; I want to believe, for example, in the Blessed Mother’s approved apparitions, but I am still very wary. May God help my unbelief…

My MIL, who is a Protestant, sends me all of these “prophecies” that her church (the church I grew up in) is espousing right now. Most of them, of course, have to do with apocalyptic themes. I tend to roll my eyes and delete the e-mails.

My instinct is to cling to the Magisterium (and Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture) - if they haven’t said it, I’m not going to give much credence to it. Am I wrong? Am I incorrect for being extremely skeptical of these “prophecies”? Am I despising prophecies?

If bothered by the email, you could politely ask this person to stop. There are several good book about the approved apparitions such as Fatima, Lourdes and Guadelupe. Fatima is very moving. Any good book will how the apparition effects the lives of those how saw and well as the lives of those around them.

 

[DebChris]

There needs to be a distinction made between prophecy and future telling.
Prophecy is speaking God’s word. If you attend any Catholic Charismatic meeting, you will often hear prophecy. Generally speaking these will be words of encouragement.
The word that is spoken is always subject to discernment. This most often takes the form of “confirmation.” Somebody else within the group will receive a similar word or scripture passage.
If what is spoken is not in agreement with both scripture and Church teaching (the magisterium), it is not from God.

Future telling is something entirely different.

 

[Sirach2]

Prophecy, when it is authentic, will have most of these signposts:

• fulfillment
• accompanying condition met (if thou wilt do such and so, then I will …)
• agreement with scripture
• judgment of others (often a group witness to the truth of the prophecy)
• confirmation of something previously spoken to you in prayer
• spiritual witness to one’s heart (peace, joy, assurance)
• purity of the vessel (the one who prophesies lives his faith)
• the spirit of the message (spoken in the character of Christ, never condemning)
• the burden of the Lord (a sense of urgency)

Simply quoting “despise not prophesyings” is to send guilt and fear, without any inner witness or assurance. This is not of God. However, we do know that there was a prophecy in Acts 11:27-30 from prophets who foretold about a great famine, and the disciples determined to send aid. This inner burden had to be sensed by them prior to the famine and they could not wait to see its fulfillment. That inner sense of urgency accompanied by the judgment of the other disciples who listened and confirmed the message of the prophets is an example of true prophecy.

It is not typical for Our Lord to give apocalyptic prophecies. Unless your MIL has delivered specific prophetic instructions for you to act upon, it can be discarded as nonsense. Nothing you have shared so far wears the criteria of true prophecy.

 

[DebChris]

Prophecy, when it is authentic, will have most of these signposts:

• fulfillment
• accompanying condition met (if thou wilt do such and so, then I will …)
• agreement with scripture
• judgment of others (often a group witness to the truth of the prophecy)
• confirmation of something previously spoken to you in prayer
• spiritual witness to one’s heart (peace, joy, assurance)
• purity of the vessel (the one who prophesies lives his faith)
• the spirit of the message (spoken in the character of Christ, never condemning)
• the burden of the Lord (a sense of urgency)

Simply quoting “despise not prophesyings” is to send guilt and fear, without any inner witness or assurance. This is not of God. However, we do know that there was a prophecy in Acts 11:27-30 from prophets who foretold about a great famine, and the disciples determined to send aid. This inner burden had to be sensed by them prior to the famine and they could not wait to see its fulfillment. That inner sense of urgency accompanied by the judgment of the other disciples who listened and confirmed the message of the prophets is an example of true prophecy.

It is not typical for Our Lord to give apocalyptic prophecies. Unless your MIL has delivered specific prophetic instructions for you to act upon, it can be discarded as nonsense. Nothing you have shared so far wears the criteria of true prophecy.

Good extension with more detail of what I was trying to say.
God speaks through his people. Sometimes, but not always, prophecy will point to future events.
It will be in agreement with scripture and the magisterium.
It is subject to discernment=judgment of brothers. This discernment becomes especially important if the message is something other than simple encouragement.
“Spiritual assurance” results from hearing God’s Word and following God’s Will.

From a Jesus Day Conference in Chicago many years ago.
A false prophets points to what is wrong.
A true prophet shows the way.

 

[pablope]

First, I apologize if this doesn’t really belong in the Apologetics thread, but I put it here because I figured you all would have the most experience in this issue, which deals with evangelical Protestants.

Fast forward to today. I must confess that after years of prophets and prophecies, I view them all with a skeptical eye. I appreciate that the Catholic Church does not require the faithful to believe in specific apparitions or locutions; I want to believe, for example, in the Blessed Mother’s approved apparitions, but I am still very wary. May God help my unbelief…