Prostitution of daughters to protect angels and men?

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Hi All,

I just want need your advice here, im currently member in one site and we get into discussion about the teachings of our church. This is what he said.

What about the prostitution of daughters to protect angels and men?

The Book of Judges, Chapter 19, Verse 24.
24. Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.

And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
  1. And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant’s house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
  2. And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
  3. But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
  4. And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
  5. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
  6. And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
  7. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
Incest:
Genesis, Chapter 19, Verses 30-38:
  1. And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
  2. And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
  3. Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
  4. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
  5. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
  6. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
  7. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
  8. And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
  9. And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Ben-ammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.
Is he right about this? I need this answered because most of the people there are teenagers and needs the truth. Unfortunately most of them are with the atheist thing, but i think they’re a bit open to any answer.

Thanks in advance 🙂
 
Lot was just as evil as his neighbors. God favoured him not because he was good, but because he was Abraham’s relative, and Abraham had prayed for him.

His daughters were sexually abused, and responded in the way that victims of sexual abuse often do - they applied the lessons learned from their attackers toward their own ambitious goals, by getting children off their drunken father.

The nation of Israel paid dearly for these crimes in later years, when the children of Lot’s daughters (who probably had all the symptoms of children of addicted, sexually abused parents, along with the natural consequences of incest) became renegade nations, and rose up violently against Israel. Ultimately, God destroyed these nations - but if His laws had been followed to begin with, they never would have come into existence, in the first place.
 
One guy responded:

Well, that would be consistent with the punishment for 7 generations thing, but isn’t it a tad harsh to brutally murder a large group of people because their grandparents’ grandparents’ grandparents sinned?

As long as we’re talking about brutality in the Bible, there’s the gem with some kids getting killed by bears for making fun Elijah’s baldness.

What does he mean?

Thanks,
 
theStrugle said:
One guy responded:

Well, that would be consistent with the punishment for 7 generations thing, but isn’t it a tad harsh to brutally murder a large group of people because their grandparents’ grandparents’ grandparents sinned?

As long as we’re talking about brutality in the Bible, there’s the gem with some kids getting killed by bears for making fun Elijah’s baldness.

What does he mean?

Thanks,
Click to expand...
As to your first question, I recommend this article a lot for the general idea: jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2007/02/hard_sayings_of.html

Also, remember that they weren’t being destroyed merely for their origins, but for actually being evil themselves.

As to the second, it’s more than it first seems. I always loved this story, but certainly didn’t understand why it would happen! The first point to consider is that the people are very possibly teenagers, not small children, when you look at the actual words involved in the original languages.

More importantly, we have to look at what they’re making fun of. They say to Elisha “go up, thou baldhead! Go up!” This is after Elijah the prophet was taken up into Heaven by God. So in saying this, they were not making fun of Elisha’s baldness - they were making fun of God. They were treating Elijah’s assumption as though it were some fairytale, and making fun of Elisha because they knew he was now supposed to be God’s prophet. They were saying to him, "if Elijah went up into Heaven, you go up to! If you’re really a prophet of God, go up to Heaven, like that ooootttttthhherr ‘prophet!’"
 
My opinion is this is a case of taking a story literal when it is not a literal story. As a side note Jesus spoke in parables the parables are stories of meaning not stories of actual events. Until one understands the parabolic speech method the meaning is lost in attempts to understand the physical aspects of the story, when in fact the physical aspects of the story may or may not exist. Did you know this story appears twice in the bible? In the other version the concubine is accepted by the men and the next day her master cuts her in to 12 pieces and sends each piece to tribe of Israel as a remembrance for their actions. SO

Where is Sodom & Gomorrah? Sodom and Gomorrah may really be all of society
**Who is Lot? **Lot represents religious man, he is one of us.
Who are the daughters? They are us the children of us which is really the children of God
Who are the Angels? They are something bigger than us, they represent god, heaven, and humanity
Who are the men outside with ill intentions? They again are us.

So the story is about us our suffering (as daughters), our unfair predicaments (as Lot), our cruelty (as outside men). The story is about how we as people created the unfair suffering and entrapped god’s good man with our cruel predicament. Notice it is not Lot nor his daughters that smote the town so do not expect super powers to right wrongs committed against you! Lot and his daughter later are faced with another consequence from Sodom & Gomorrah which is how to fulfill God’s plan or procreation under dire circumstances? They answer by humbling themselves in a manner they do not desire, they perform incest to achieve God’s plan. So if you are called on to humble your self before God be prepared to accept circumstances you really do not like. In the other version the concubine is martyred and her body and blood offered up to Israel to atone for sins, sounds familiar.

The bigger teaching in these stories is more repetition that man recreates evil every time, no flood, martyrdom, or leveling of society can prevent such. However you can be as Lot and his daughters which performs God’s task under even trying circumstances. Hope that helps
 
theStrugle said:
One guy responded:

Well, that would be consistent with the punishment for 7 generations thing, but isn’t it a tad harsh to brutally murder a large group of people because their grandparents’ grandparents’ grandparents sinned?
Click to expand...
Have you ever tried to reason with a child of incest? As long as you agree with them, everything is fine, but they don’t respond real well to being disagreed with.

They were also child-of-alcoholic and child-of-sexual-abuse survivors, which compounds the “disfunctionality,” to use the politically correct term.

One or two of them in your neighborhood, it’s fine - if the normals outnumber them, they usually figure out a way to blend in, and “fake it 'til they make it.”

Now, imagine an entire nation of them - with no concept of what “normal” even looks like, and no motivation to “act normal.”

They were vicious, without conscience or morality of any kind - they killed and raped for fun. The Israelites wiped them out in self-defense. God ensured that Israel won, because Israel was “the chosen people” - probably because they were the only nation around that was even trying to follow His laws, and thus, the only ones of normal intelligence, with the full range of human emotions and instincts.
 
theStrugle said:
Hi All,

I just want need your advice here, im currently member in one site and we get into discussion about the teachings of our church. This is what he said.

What about the prostitution of daughters to protect angels and men?

The Book of Judges, Chapter 19, Verse 24.
24. Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.

And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
  1. And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant’s house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
  2. And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
  3. But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
  4. And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
  5. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
  6. And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
  7. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
Click to expand...
You need to tell this person to quote the whole text. The angels strike the men who were trying to rape the guests with a blinding light. Thus the angels of God prevented this from happening. The text could be a story against rape, couldn’t it?
 
Hi Strugle,
The language in my NAB clearly gives another aspect to Gen 19:5,
“They called to Lot and said to him, ‘Where are the men who came to your house tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have intimacies with them.’”

Looks like Lot knew his daughters would not be desired by this particular crowd. That kinda explains why he was so persistent in not letting the strangers spend the night in the town square - he was protecting the innocent.
Deborah
 
Hospitality is viewed in their culture very highly, it would in their mind allowing one’s daughters to be raped vs guest being raped, the daughters was the lesser of two evils.

Concerning the generational curse thing read deut 5,

9Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

10And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

Most likely, a wicked parent would teach their children wicked behavior, and thus the curse is passed down due to culture of their family.

whereas godly parents would teach their children to love God, thus passing down blessing to future generations.

“train up a child in the way he should go, and he will not depart from it” in proverbs.
 
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