Protestant Answers Live?

[seanman611]

Issues Etc. is a popular radio/streaming show hosted by an LCMS pastor and has a wide listening audience. The show features a wide variety of guests and topics, from a confessional Lutheran point of view. Some shows tackle Lutheran theology, others pop American Christianity, political issues, cults, the occult, news stories, demographics, controversies, pop culture, and everything in-between.

It is a great show and for those wondering, it is a Catholic-friendly program.

 

[seanman611]

I don’t think this is the most accurate assessment about the Lutheran beliefs on baptism. Generally speaking, confessional Lutherans (including the LCMS) hold that baptism is necessary for salvation. What the LCMS is saying is that it might be possible for those who are not baptized to still be saved in very rare situations, we just don’t know for sure. I don’t see the controversy allowing the possibility of salvation without baptism in rare or extreme cases.

 

[drblank1]

Jon, Biblical in the meaning all doctrine is derived from the 66 books of the Bible. Catholic, Orthodox,Coptic, etc… doctrine can come from the Bible, Apocrypha, Tradition, etc… I’m not an expert, but I think that line of distinction can be drawn between the Anglican Church and Lutherans.

Essential - what gets you to Heaven. LCMS is clear. Baptism is not a requirement of salvation.

Straight from the LCMS Website - Statement of Scriptural and Confessional Principles - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

Section I
“We believe, teach and confess that Jesus Christ is our Savior and Lord, and that through faith in Him we receive forgiveness of sins, eternal life and salvation. We confess that “our works cannot reconcile God or merit forgiveness of sins and grace, but that we obtain forgiveness and grace only by faith when we believe that we are received into favor for Christ’s sake, who alone has been ordained to be the mediator and propitiation through whom the Father is reconciled” (AC, XX, 9).” (emphasis. added)

The LCMS is not as dogmatic on Confessions as you think they are - Secton IV, 2
“We recognize, for example, that subscription to the Lutheran Confessions does not bind us to all strictly exegetical details contained in the Confessions, or even to the confessional use of certain Bible passages to support a particular theological statement.”

 

[drblank1]

I just stumbled on how to quote in this new software. yahooooo!!! LOL

The fact remains, however, that the statement that all mainline Protestant denominations agree on certain essential doctrines is plain false.

Jon, provide me one mainline Protestant denomination that does agree that the CC is not the one true church and the following essentials of Christian faith:

The deity of Christ.
Salvation by grace
Salvation through Jesus Christ alone
The resurrection of Christ
The gospel
Monotheism
The Holy Trinity
Faith in Jesus

 

[drblank1]

I don’t think this is the most accurate assessment about the Lutheran beliefs on baptism. Generally speaking, confessional Lutherans (including the LCMS) hold that baptism is necessary for salvation. What the LCMS is saying is that it might be possible for those who are not baptized to still be saved in very rare situations, we just don’t know for sure. I don’t see the controversy allowing the possibility of salvation without baptism in rare or extreme cases.

From what I have read on the LCMS website, infant baptism instills the beginnings of faith, given from God, but infants are not yet saved. And baptism is not a necessary work that gives salvation. I don’t know that much about LCMS, but glean that they, like all other mainline Protestants, question how someone “comes to faith” in Jesus and were NOT compelled into baptism by the Holy Spirit.

While my church does not ascribe to infants baptism, if one were absolutely convinced in their own mind after coming to faith in Jesus that one’s infant baptism is valid and fulfills Jesus’ example on baptism, we believe they are covered by Romans 14:5.

Baptism is essential in one’s faith walk with Jesus. But is infant baptism essential, no. Infant baptism is a non-essential issue in the protestant faith.

 

[JonNC]

I just stumbled on how to quote in this new software. yahooooo!!! LOL

JonNC:

The fact remains, however, that the statement that all mainline Protestant denominations agree on certain essential doctrines is plain false.

Jon, provide me one mainline Protestant denomination that does agree that the CC is not the one true church and the following essentials of Christian faith:

The deity of Christ.
Salvation by grace
Salvation through Jesus Christ alone
The resurrection of Christ
The gospel
Monotheism
The Holy Trinity
Faith in Jesus

Now you’re trying to fit certain essentials into the narrative. If they are essentials, then all the essentials must be agreed upon. I was raised Lutheran which is why I dispute the idea of essentials. Do all mainline traditions that;

1. Baptism, and Communion are sacraments through which forgiveness of sins is received
2. in the Lord’s supper, the true and substantial body and blood of Christ are distributed and received
3. a person once justified, can lose justification
4. that only one Baptism is necessary

When I made the decision to become continuing Anglican, I considered no other Protestant tradition because of these and other essentials.

 

[JonNC]

Baptism is essential in one’s faith walk with Jesus. But is infant baptism essential, no. Infant baptism is a non-essential issue in the protestant faith.

If infant Baptism is a nonessential, then the local Baptist church would accept mine as a valid Baptism and not ask me to be re-baptized were I to want to join.

One of the essentials is the Nicene Creed, which includes the phrase; “I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins.”

These are essentials that I don’t believe all traditions believe and confess.

 

[JonNC]

From what I have read on the LCMS website, infant baptism instills the beginnings of faith, given from God, but infants are not yet saved. And baptism is not a necessary work that gives salvation.

If a baptized infant dies, there is no reason to believe they are not saved. "Baptism now saves you. "
Baptism is not a work at all. It is a sacrament, an act of God in us, a means of grace that regenerates, forgives sin, and imparts the Holy Spirit.

 

[Luke-Suncook]

Protestant’s can hardly agree on any

 

[JonNC]

=“Luke-Suncook, post:110, topic:444554, full:true”]
A Protestant live format would cause even more problems and divisions because Protestant’s can hardly agree on anything. Christ taught unity, something the church hasn’t delivered in these latter times.

You’re coming from the false assumption that Protestant is a group, or a Church. It isn’t, and never has been. To say that Methodists disagree with Baptists is no different than saying Catholics disagree with Baptists. In both instances they are two different groups.

 

[Luke-Suncook]

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[JonNC]

Luke-Suncook, post:112, topic:444554, full:true"]
I disagree because they are somewhat all against Catholicism in some way, often labeling Catholicism as a cult.

And Lutherans, for example, are somewhat against all non-Lutheran traditions in some way, as well, often being labeled as “Catholic Lite”.

Catholics are fairly unified in their doctrine as opposed to Protestants.

Why would you think that these different traditions would be more unified with each organ than they are, individually, with Rome? They are different communions.

I never really broke from Catholicism even after ministering in a Protestant Church for a short time. I was being taught that Rome was the bad guy from which the demonic duo would emerge. I never believed it then. Today I have the evidencethat Rome has nothing to do with any of it.

I’ve never been RC, but I’ve never heard about a demonic duo. Since there is no such thing as a "Protestant Church ", can you say specifically what type of church you were in?

And I’m not talking just doctrinal disagreements, I’m talking ecumenism. This balony pipe dream of a one world religion initiated by the Pope is the cause of Protestant’s being anti-ecumenical.

Ive often said that the unity of the Church Militant runs through Rome, but a unified Church will not come via force from the Bishop of Rome. That’s plain silly