Protestant Baptism?

[amontoya]

Why does the Catholic Church accept baptisms from protestant denominations? The Catechism of the Catholic Church says the person who is baptizing must intend to do what the Catholic Church intends; which is not only bringing somebody into the church, but baptizing them for the forgiveness of sins. Since most protestants believe in salvation by faith alone, and think that baptism is just a symbol, they do not intend what the Catholic Church does. So why does the Catholic Church accept their baptisms as valid?

 

[newby]

Jesus instituted Baptism for the forgiveness of sin. The form and substance is what allows the Catholic Church to recognize Protestant Baptism…if you use water and the form, “In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” Remember, you don’t have to be a priest (meaning valid orders) to baptise. All of these make baptism valid in the eyes of the Catholic Church. Intent really has nothing to do with this. Intent does have impact as it relates to Baptism of Desire…another way to have Original Sin removed.

Bless you…Newby

 

[DavidFilmer]

amontoya:

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says the person who is baptizing must intend to do what the Catholic Church intends; which is not only bringing somebody into the church, but baptizing them for the forgiveness of sins.

I don’t believe that’s actually what the CCC says. I tried to find the article in the Catechism that you refer to, and I could not (though CCC#1256 (and #1284 in brief) addresses this topic, but it does not stipulate the conditions you cite). Could you cite your reference please (or explain how you interpret the CCC’s requirement of “what the Church does” as “what the Church intends” because these are two *very *different things)

 

[ekim61]

newby:

Jesus instituted Baptism for the forgiveness of sin. The form and substance is what allows the Catholic Church to recognize Protestant Baptism…if you use water and the form, “In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” Remember, you don’t have to be a priest (meaning valid orders) to baptise. All of these make baptism valid in the eyes of the Catholic Church. Intent really has nothing to do with this. Intent does have impact as it relates to Baptism of Desire…another way to have Original Sin removed.

Bless you…Newby

So are you saying that if I baptized someone that the church would accept it as valid?

When I was a Baptist they allowed anyone to perform a Baptism as long as the congregation did not object. For example, say i wanted to be the one to baptize my child.

 

[Affirmed]

If you were to baptize someone in a non-emergency situation, and you used valid matter and form, it would be a valid, but illicit baptism.

 

[DavidFilmer]

Affirmed:

If you were to baptize someone in a non-emergency situation, and you used valid matter and form, it would be a valid, but illicit baptism.

This is correct. The ordinary minister of Baptism is a bishop, priest, or deacon. But, unlike any other Sacrament, Baptism can be done by an extrodinary (ie, not ordinary) minister who may be… anyone. That’s right - anyone at all. A Rabbi. An Imam. A druid. A flaming heretic. An atheist. The only requirememts is they use water and the Trinitarian formula, and (here’s the catch) must intend to Baptize. One might reasonably question the proper intent of Jews or Atheists (so conditional Baptism is a good idea where possible), but it is possible that anyone at all may conduct a valid baptism.

But, in the Catholic Church, an extrodinary minister (ie, you or anybody) may only Baptize in case of emergency, when the unbaptized subject will likely die before a bishop/priest/deacon may minister to them. Otherwise the Baptism is valid but illicit (ie, it is fully valid but was not done properly).

Most protestant Baptisms are valid but illicit (some protestants abuse the form and do not have valid baptisms). But they ARE valid, meaning the Catholic Church accepts the Baptisms of converts from (most) protestant faiths, since you cannot “re-baptize” a validly Baptized person.

 

[Vanny]

I always heard that a protestant baptism is valid (a sacrement)
so long as the baptism used the Water and the Word and was done in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit( Trinity).
Most mainline protestant church baptisms would be valid.
A very few pentecostal type churchs baptize in the name of Jesus only, that would not be valid.

So water and the right words said in the name of the Trinity.

 

[Church_Militant]

amontoya:

Why does the Catholic Church accept baptisms from protestant denominations? The Catechism of the Catholic Church says the person who is baptizing must intend to do what the Catholic Church intends; which is not only bringing somebody into the church, but baptizing them for the forgiveness of sins. Since most protestants believe in salvation by faith alone, and think that baptism is just a symbol, they do not intend what the Catholic Church does. So why does the Catholic Church accept their baptisms as valid?

Isn’t that why we have counseling and RCIA? To insure that they understand it and concur?

 

[DianJo]

Protestants don’t have to concur on what really happens at Baptism. They don’t agree that bapitsm is regenerative but it doesn’t matter what they think - it still is regenerative.

Someone mentioned intent. This goes directly to that. God is not bound by the sacraments so if someone is baptized symbolically it still carries the regenerative aspect no matter what anyone thinks.

As long as the correct matter and form are used then that person’s baptism is valid and it is regenerative. That’s why you can’t be baptized more than once - the sacramental character has been given to that person already, it cannot be redone.

 

[amontoya]

“…any person, even someone not baptized, can baptize, if he has the required intention. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes, and to apply the Trinitarian baptismal formula.” Catechism of the Catholic Church #1256

What the church does, is baptize with water for the forgiveness of sins, right? If someone doesn’t have the intention to do that, would the baptism be recognized as valid, and why?

Many protestants view baptism just as they do communion, as only a symbol. Most don’t have the will to do anything the Catholic Church does, so why would the Church recognize a protestant baptism?

 

[DavidFilmer]

"…any person, even someone not baptized, can baptize, if he has the required intention. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes, and to apply the Trinitarian baptismal formula." Catechism of the Catholic Church #1256

What the church does, is baptize with water for the forgiveness of sins, right?

Well, that’s getting into intent. Notice that the CCC only insists the “minister” intends to DO what the Church DOES, not what DO what the Church INTENDS (ie, understands). What the Church DOES is to make the recipient of Baptism a full member of the Church (as Catholics, we *understand *that to mean more than protestants, but, in that case, we’re talking about action (incorporation into the Body of Christ), not the full understanding thereof).

Many protestants view baptism just as they do communion, as only a symbol…

Just because it’s symbolic to protestants doesn’t mean it’s not also important (or even necessary) for them. When an American elected official is “sworn in,” this is a symbolic act, but we don’t recognize that person’s office unless this symbolic ceremony has taken place.

Likewise, for example, a Baptist would not truly recognize someone as a “Christian” unless he had received Trinitarian water Baptism. They might regard the ceremony as symbolic, but they *do *regard it as necessary to be a full member of the Body of Christ. As do Catholics. So the intent is the same, though the understanding is different.