Protestant Eucharist (Thanksgiving)

[Padres1969]

Hi La,

The underlined seems like a little self imposed ambiguity .For the most part the few communion understandings have been around and known for a long time (and some would say since apostolic times). No one needs to guess, only look.

As to the specifics of this thread, there are only two views I would think.** Either it is “sacrificial” or it is not.** Only two ways (apart from any real presence views though somewhat connected)

Thank you for your view.

Blessings

This is true, you are either one or the other. The Eucharistic prayers used in the Episcopal Church are clearly sacrificial and make reference several times in each to the sacrifice taking place and the body and blood. Now individual Episcopalians have different views on what the exact nature of the sacrifice of the mass itself is (and the church doesn’t choose to clarify it as much as say the RCC does) and what form it takes, but the sacrificial nature itself is not really in question.

 

[SyroMalankara]

This is true, you are either one or the other. The Eucharistic prayers used in the Episcopal Church are clearly sacrificial and make reference several times in each to the sacrifice taking place and the body and blood. Now individual Episcopalians have different views on what the exact nature of the sacrifice of the mass itself is (and the church doesn’t choose to clarify it as much as say the RCC does) and what form it takes, but the sacrificial nature itself is not really in question.

I disagree. A quick reading of “Prayer A” comes off as ambiguous (trinitycranford.org/?page_id=1974):

We celebrate the memorial of our redemption, O Father, in this sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving. Recalling his death, resurrection, and ascension, we offer you these gifts. Sanctify them by your Holy Spirit to be for your people the Body and Blood of your Son, the holy food and drink of new and unending life in him. Sanctify us also that we may faithfully receive this holy Sacrament, and serve you in unity, constancy, and peace; and at the last day bring us with all your saints into the joy of your eternal kingdom.

…

Breaking of the Bread
The Celebrant says: The Gifts of God for the People of God. Take them in remembrance that Christ died for you, and feed on him in your hearts by faith, with thanksgiving.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Hi La,

The underlined seems like a little self imposed ambiguity .For the most part the few communion understandings have been around and known for a long time (and some would say since apostolic times). No one needs to guess, only look.

As to the specifics of this thread, there are only two views I would think. Either it is “sacrificial” or it is not. Only two ways (apart from any real presence views though somewhat connected)

Thank you for your view.

Blessings

I know you hold a different view, obviously.

My view is that we enter in to the one time eternal sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.

I’ve heard many P’s claim the Catholics are “killing Jesus” at every Mass which is inaccurate.

As to the Anglicans and people supposedly being knocked down for not genuflecting, I don’t know why or how that happened. That was my point.

Thanks.

 

[Padres1969]

I disagree. A quick reading of “Prayer A” comes off as ambiguous (trinitycranford.org/?page_id=1974):

We celebrate the memorial of our redemption, O Father, in this sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving. Recalling his death, resurrection, and ascension, we offer you these gifts. Sanctify them by your Holy Spirit to be for your people the Body and Blood of your Son, the holy food and drink of new and unending life in him. Sanctify us also that we may faithfully receive this holy Sacrament, and serve you in unity, constancy, and peace; and at the last day bring us with all your saints into the joy of your eternal kingdom.

…

Breaking of the Bread
The Celebrant says: The Gifts of God for the People of God. Take them in remembrance that Christ died for you, and feed on him in your hearts by faith, with thanksgiving.

You skipped a few key lines used during the actual breaking of the bread in the Breaking of the Bread just after the Lord’s Prayer… .

[Alleluia.] Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us;
Therefore let us keep the feast. [Alleluia.]

Been to plenty of Episcopal Services and this line has only been omitted one time when I was at a church using the rarely used Rite III (though arguably similar sacrificial language was inserted). That and frankly I don’t see how you find. “O Father, in this sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving.” and “Sanctify them by your Holy Spirit to be for your people the Body and Blood of your Son,” as ambiguous.

And indeed during reception of the Eucharist similar language is used.

The Body (Blood) of our Lord Jesus Christ keep you in
everlasting life. [Amen.]

or
*
The Body of Christ, the bread of heaven. [Amen.]
The Blood of Christ, the cup of salvation. [Amen.]*

 

[Lenten_ashes]

This is true, you are either one or the other. The Eucharistic prayers used in the Episcopal Church are clearly sacrificial and make reference several times in each to the sacrifice taking place and the body and blood. Now individual Episcopalians have different views on what the exact nature of the sacrifice of the mass itself is (and the church doesn’t choose to clarify it as much as say the RCC does) and what form it takes, but the sacrificial nature itself is not really in question.

Does seem like our views are a bit different.

For example, never saw anybody in the Anglican Church fall down on their face and adore the Lord in Eucharistic adoration. But I do see this in the Catholic Church.

I also saw everybody receive in the hand in the Anglican Church, yet many Catholics prefer to receive directly into their mouth. The fear, obviously, that you could drop Jesus on the ground.

Is Eucharistic adoration a part of your Church?

Thanks

 

[Padres1969]

Does seem like our views are a bit different.

For example, never saw anybody in the Anglican Church fall down on their face and adore the Lord in Eucharistic adoration. But I do see this in the Catholic Church.

I also saw everybody receive in the hand in the Anglican Church, yet many Catholics prefer to receive directly into their mouth. The fear, obviously, that you could drop Jesus on the ground.

Is Eucharistic adoration a part of your Church?

Thanks

Some Anglo-Catholic Anglicans do adore the Eucharist yes.

My own church which I often describe as stradling between High Church Anglican and Anglo-Catholic, does not have adoration. But then we don’t reserve the Eucharist at my parish after mass other than to take the Eucharist to the sick and shut in. But between the consecration and the removal to the sick and shut in the Chancel is afforded the same respect and honor the high altar and tabernacle would be in a Catholic church (ie: genuflection or bowing toward the altar is the norm, etc…).

As for receiving in the hand, many do (I’ve always done so even when I was Catholic, we were never taught about reception on the tongue when I was in the RCC). Some do receive on the tongue. Some receive in the hand only as a means of holding the body until the blood arrives and then the chalice bearer performs the intinction for them and places it on the tongue.

 

[GKC]

Some Anglo-Catholic Anglicans do adore the Eucharist yes.

My own church which I often describe as stradling between High Church Anglican and Anglo-Catholic, does not have adoration. But then we don’t reserve the Eucharist at my parish after mass other than to take the Eucharist to the sick and shut in. But between the consecration and the removal to the sick and shut in the Chancel is afforded the same respect and honor the high altar and tabernacle would be in a Catholic church (ie: genuflection or bowing toward the altar is the norm, etc…).

As for receiving in the hand, many do (I’ve always done so even when I was Catholic, we were never taught about reception on the tongue when I was in the RCC). Some do receive on the tongue. Some receive in the hand only as a means of holding the body until the blood arrives and then the chalice bearer performs the intinction for them and places it on the tongue.

Been a while since my parish has done a Benediction/adoration of the blessed sacrament. But, yes. Last time I assisted.

The Body is reserved in a Tabernacle, centered on the altar,

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Some Anglo-Catholic Anglicans do adore the Eucharist yes.

My own church which I often describe as stradling between High Church Anglican and Anglo-Catholic, does not have adoration. But then we don’t reserve the Eucharist at my parish after mass other than to take the Eucharist to the sick and shut in. But between the consecration and the removal to the sick and shut in the Chancel is afforded the same respect and honor the high altar and tabernacle would be in a Catholic church (ie: genuflection or bowing toward the altar is the norm, etc…).

As for receiving in the hand, many do (I’ve always done so even when I was Catholic, we were never taught about reception on the tongue when I was in the RCC). Some do receive on the tongue. Some receive in the hand only as a means of holding the body until the blood arrives and then the chalice bearer performs the intinction for them and places it on the tongue.

Thanks.

I’m actually kind of torn on receiving in the mouth directly…only persons coming that close to my mouth are my wife or my dentist lol. But my views could change later, i suppose.

 

[GKC]

Thanks.

I’m actually kind of torn on receiving in the mouth directly…only persons coming that close to my mouth are my wife or my dentist lol. But my views could change later, i suppose.

As my bishop says, it’s good chance to stick your tongue out at him.

 

[benhur]

This is true, you are either one or the other. The Eucharistic prayers used in the Episcopal Church are clearly sacrificial and make reference several times in each to the sacrifice taking place and the body and blood. Now individual Episcopalians have different views on what the exact nature of the sacrifice of the mass itself is (and the church doesn’t choose to clarify it as much as say the RCC does) and what form it takes, but the sacrificial nature itself is not really in question.

HI, SD man,

Without theological technicalities, I say sacrificial with the words of consecration , as in "May this sacrifice at our hands be acceptable to thee Father " or words to that effect (which I find unbiblical to the Lord’s consecration or that of first fathers.)

Blessings

 

[benhur]

I know you hold a different view, obviously.

My view is that we enter in to the one time eternal sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.

I’ve heard many P’s claim the Catholics are “killing Jesus” at every Mass which is inaccurate.

Hi La,

Understand the re-representing , not re “sacrificing” (killing).

However, I find you are reoffering to the Father what He has already offered for us. You even supplicate, hope that it is acceptable, when we know it already is. That is why eucharist is fitting, a thanksgiving for what has already been offered for us and accepted by the Father. If I may humbly stress, the CC goes far beyond “remembrance”.

Blessings

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Hi La,

Understand the re-representing , not re “sacrificing” (killing).

However, I find you are reoffering to the Father what He has already offered for us. You even supplicate, hope that it is acceptable, when we know it already is. That is why eucharist is fitting, a thanksgiving for what has already been offered for us and accepted by the Father. If I may humbly stress, the CC goes far beyond “remembrance”.

Blessings

I understand your objection.

But Jesus also said, this IS my body. He didn’t say this is a symbolic representation of my body.

And he didn’t use Welch’s grape juice either :newidea:

Agree to disagree

 

[benhur]

I understand your objection.

But Jesus also said, this IS my body. He didn’t say this is a symbolic representation of my body.

And he didn’t use Welch’s grape juice either :newidea:

Agree to disagree

Hi La,

Figurative speech is such that it does not have to explicitly explain itself.

But thanks on RP thoughts, even though the thread deals not with that but “sacrificial” Eucharist or not.

Blessings

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Hi La,

Figurative speech is such that it does not have to explicitly explain itself.

But thanks on RP thoughts, even though the thread deals not with that but “sacrificial” Eucharist or not.

Blessings

I’ve started a fun thread in apologetics examining the Eucharistic objections from non-Catholics.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1007927

Perhaps you can chime in if you have time. I’m pretending to be a fundamentalist but that’s not fun because we all know I am not.lol

 

[Padres1969]

HI, SD man,

Without theological technicalities, I say sacrificial with the words of consecration , as in "May this sacrifice at our hands be acceptable to thee Father " or words to that effect (which I find unbiblical to the Lord’s consecration or that of first fathers.)

Blessings

They may not be the same words, but I find “Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us” to be pretty sacrificial. You may find them un-biblical which I can understand as an argument. But I still stand by the sacrificial nature of the Anglican Eucharist, even if it’s not nearly as emphasized as it is in the Catholic version.

 

[benhur]

They may not be the same words, but I find “Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us” to be pretty sacrificial. You may find them un-biblical which I can understand as an argument. But I still stand by the sacrificial nature of the Anglican Eucharist, even if it’s not nearly as emphasized as it is in the Catholic version.

Hi P,

Maybe we misunderstand each other. Those words sound like “remembrance” to me. We remember His Sacrifice with thanksgiving

Blessings