Protestant hymns every sunday?

[pnewton]

Old Man River is a Baptist hymn?

Yes. It is a symbol of heaven and was a favorite among Baptists until the Pentacostals added the part about "keeps on rollin’ ".

What kind of congregation is your parish? We use some protestant hymnsm but then we have a high percentage of converts.

 

[daeve]

It was years before I even knew that there were English words for Adeste Fidelis! We need to expose our children to more Latin - we learned as kids, right?

I seem to recall that you and I are about the same age. I took Latin in high school for 4 years in addition to what we learned in religion classes and choir is grade school. Our 7th & 8th grade choir sang at funerals and weddings almost every week. We had lots of practice with the Latin. Plus, I’m Italian, and although we didn’t speak it at home, my grandparents spoke a mixture of Italian and English, so I could follow it when people spoke Italian. Not quite Latin, but it helped.

Kids today don’t learn Latin as a language. I know, it’s dead, but it really isn’t. So many words in English, and in all the romance languages are built on Latin words. Seems to me, it could only help if they all had some exposure to it.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I seem to recall that you and I are about the same age. I took Latin in high school for 4 years in addition to what we learned in religion classes and choir is grade school. Our 7th & 8th grade choir sang at funerals and weddings almost every week. We had lots of practice with the Latin. Plus, I’m Italian, and although we didn’t speak it at home, my grandparents spoke a mixture of Italian and English, so I could follow it when people spoke Italian. Not quite Latin, but it helped.

Kids today don’t learn Latin as a language. I know, it’s dead, but it really isn’t. So many words in English, and in all the romance languages are built on Latin words. Seems to me, it could only help if they all had some exposure to it.

Yep! My kids at least learned to sing the Kyrie in Greek and the Sanctus and Agnus Dei in Latin. They may have only experienced it in Lent but they were exposed.

What has happened to us that we have abandoned our heritage? What would it hurt to sing “To Jesus Christ, Our Sovereign King”?

 

[pnewton]

What has happened to us that we have abandoned our heritage? What would it hurt to sing “To Jesus Christ, Our Sovereign King”?

I love the old protestant hymns that I grew up with. Some are okay, many are not. When I became Catholic, I transferred my love for old hymns. My wife has to advise me what actually is and old Catholic hymn and what is not, though. Occasionally I pick one up when visiting. “To Jesus Christ, Our Sovereign King” is one of my favorites and I use it generously.

 

[Mels]

I seem to recall that you and I are about the same age. I took Latin in high school for 4 years in addition to what we learned in religion classes and choir is grade school. Our 7th & 8th grade choir sang at funerals and weddings almost every week. We had lots of practice with the Latin. Plus, I’m Italian, and although we didn’t speak it at home, my grandparents spoke a mixture of Italian and English, so I could follow it when people spoke Italian. Not quite Latin, but it helped.

Kids today don’t learn Latin as a language. I know, it’s dead, but it really isn’t. So many words in English, and in all the romance languages are built on Latin words. Seems to me, it could only help if they all had some exposure to it.

Amen! I definitely think kids should learn Latin when they’re young (one of the reasons I hope to major in Latin or classics and become a teacher). It has been really helpful to me, and it’s helped me take a deeper interest in the Mass and the Latin hymns. My Church uses the awful Gather books and these really trite hymns. Ughhhhh…

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Yes. It is a symbol of heaven and was a favorite among Baptists until the Pentacostals added the part about "keeps on rollin’ ".

What kind of congregation is your parish? We use some protestant hymnsm but then we have a high percentage of converts.

I grew up a Southern Baptist and “Old Man River” is NOT a Baptist hymn or ANY kind of Protestant hymn at ALL. Here is information on that particular song.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ol’_Man_River

Much of what some “traditional” Catholics hold up as examples of Protestant music is not remotely Protestant and it would astonish most evangelical, fundamentalist, or even slightly conservative Protestants that such confusion would exist. A thoroughly Protestant hymn would be, for example, “How Great Thou Art,” even though there isn’t a single word of it that contradicts Catholic theology (personally, I think the tune is rather dreadful). In terms of the theological understanding of the congregation, our Masses in the West would be better served if they DID adopt a lot of the traditional Protestant hymns, such as “There Is A Fountain Filled With Blood, Drawn From Emmanuel’s Veins” or “There’s Power in the Blood” (devotion to the Most Precious Blood, anyone?) or “Softly and Tenderly Jesus is Calling” or “Just As I Am” for Communion, which emphasizes God’s “Come, let us reason together! Though your sins be as scarlet, I shall make you as white as wool.”

The poor music in our masses today is our OWN fault. It IS a silly hippy mindset stuck in the 60’s folk music genre, but it has little or nothing to do with Protestants. In fact, Anglicans/Episcopalians had a much finer hymnody for years after we got tangled up in our own guitar strings. They followed US into this liturgical wasteland, they certainly didn’t lead us. Neither did the Baptists, most of whom would laugh at the banality of what’s sung at Catholic Masses today. I dislike most modern praise and worship music used by contemporary Protestant congregations today, but MOST of it comes right out of Holy Writ and is NOT heretical in it’s wording. As far as that specific criteria goes, it STILL has it over on some of our very questionable dreck, such as “I, Mysefl, Am the Bread of Life” and “Sing a New Church,” et al.

 

[pnewton]

I grew up a Southern Baptist and “Old Man River” is NOT a Baptist hymn or ANY kind of Protestant hymn at ALL. Here is information on that particular song.

Of course it is not a hymns. Didn’t you notice the smilie?

 

[tomarin]

My church, in Brooklyn, exclusively uses protestant hymns and spirituals during the procession, communion, and closing. The organist does solos and long slides across the keys, with the tremolo going the whole time. I feel like a baptist.
I keep expecting to hear “Old Man River” at any moment.

funny, i had the same experience this past weekend when i was visiting my parents and went to mass in a church in their diocese. i don’t know what made the hymns sound “protestant” but they definitely didn’t sound catholic – maybe it had something to do with the hammond organ they were using?

of course in my own parish the music is more of the guitars and drum-set 60’s-era pop folk variety, which may be catholic but is very tiresome nonetheless.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Of course it is not a hymns. Didn’t you notice the smilie?

Sorry, Pnewton, I was simply using your post as a launching pad!

 

[St_Isidore]

My church, in Brooklyn, exclusively uses protestant hymns and spirituals during the procession, communion, and closing. The organist does solos and long slides across the keys, with the tremolo going the whole time. I feel like a baptist.

You feel like a Baptist.
You should be thankful that it is only protestant hymns and Spirituals. There are many masses with much more extensive abuses.

 

[daeve]

I grew up a Southern Baptist and “Old Man River” is NOT a Baptist hymn or ANY kind of Protestant hymn at ALL. Here is information on that particular song.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ol’_Man_River

Much of what some “traditional” Catholics hold up as examples of Protestant music is not remotely Protestant and it would astonish most evangelical, fundamentalist, or even slightly conservative Protestants that such confusion would exist. A thoroughly Protestant hymn would be, for example, “How Great Thou Art,” even though there isn’t a single word of it that contradicts Catholic theology (personally, I think the tune is rather dreadful). In terms of the theological understanding of the congregation, our Masses in the West would be better served if they DID adopt a lot of the traditional Protestant hymns, such as “There Is A Fountain Filled With Blood, Drawn From Emmanuel’s Veins” or “There’s Power in the Blood” (devotion to the Most Precious Blood, anyone?) or “Softly and Tenderly Jesus is Calling” or “Just As I Am” for Communion, which emphasizes God’s “Come, let us reason together! Though your sins be as scarlet, I shall make you as white as wool.”

The poor music in our masses today is our OWN fault. It IS a silly hippy mindset stuck in the 60’s folk music genre, but it has little or nothing to do with Protestants. In fact, Anglicans/Episcopalians had a much finer hymnody for years after we got tangled up in our own guitar strings. They followed US into this liturgical wasteland, they certainly didn’t lead us. Neither did the Baptists, most of whom would laugh at the banality of what’s sung at Catholic Masses today. I dislike most modern praise and worship music used by contemporary Protestant congregations today, but MOST of it comes right out of Holy Writ and is NOT heretical in it’s wording. As far as that specific criteria goes, it STILL has it over on some of our very questionable dreck, such as “I, Mysefl, Am the Bread of Life” and “Sing a New Church,” et al.

I don’t think anyone was really suggesting that Ol Man River was any kind of hymn. It was a new thought…now we’ve got Protestant songs, next we’ll have stuff from Broadway musicals. I guess Sesame Street would be after that. No one meant to offend anyone’s hymns.

Power in the Blood is one of my rip-roarin’ favorites. Next Friday, you’ll find me singing away at the Gaither Homecoming. Now there’s some music!

 

[daeve]

You feel like a Baptist.
You should be thankful that it is only protestant hymns and Spirituals. There are many masses with much more extensive abuses.

A good point. There’s a lot worse than Protestant music going on all over the place.

 

[Linnyo]

one defines a “protastant hymn” as one that was written by a protastant, and the problem with them is that many, maybe even most of these hymns contain heretical theology.

Rubbish - most of them are lifted from the Bible just as a great many ‘Catholic’ hymns are!

 

[Cat]

As a pianist, I wish to make a few comments about the OP’s evaluation of the organist.

Those of us who play keyboards all have our own “style,” partly due to natural tendencies (what our ears like) and partially developed in us by our teachers when we were children.

I am classically-trained, but I play hymns with a Gospel flair, with embellishments (although I’m always careful to bang out the melody so that those who sing by ear can hear it easily). I would not call myself a “flashy” pianist, but I’m certainly confident.

I’ve had many MANY Catholics, including the parish priests, tell me that they love to hear me play. One lady said, “It livens everything up and makes us want to sing.” Another person said that everything sounds “fuller” when I play.

I do NOT play classical music (e.g., Ave Maria) with a gospel flair. If I have a chance to play a piece of classical music in Mass, I play it in the proper style.

Even among classical instrumentalists, there are different styles. I tend to play the classics with a “soft touch.” This means that I’m very good with Haydn, but not so good with Beethoven, and Bach–well, I like to play him, but I’m not sure if I do him justice.

I know of other classical musicians who are strong and almost “masculine” in their style. I like this and wish I could do it, but I just don’t have the “drama” in me. (I think part of this is because I’m a good accompanist, which means I tend to play “under” all the time.)

The organist mentioned in the OP has a particular style that he/she learned. Perhaps they are capable of switching, but perhaps not. The music director surely knows if the organist is capable of switching styles. It is up to the music director (or priest) to determine whether this organist’s style is appropriate or inappropriate for Mass.

Frankly, I think that the musician, especially if they are older, would be terribly hurt to be asked to resign because of tremolo and other style-points that aren’t truly “sinful,” just not the norm in Catholic churches.

And perhaps if this organist were to be asked to stop playing, there would be no other keyboardist to take his or her place. I know that many of you say that you love Mass with no music, but many Christians disagree with you strongly. Many people would rather hear music that is not to their personal standard at Mass rather than no music at all.

So be grateful that this organist is willing to use his/her abilities to serve the Lord. And remember, the Lord looks upon the heart and the motives. He is probably a lot less offended by the “tremolo” than He is by the people sitting in the congregation who play a keyboard instrument but have never told anybody because they aren’t willing to say yes and play for Mass and take a chance on someone not liking their playing.

And that brings me to another point. It is extremely difficult to play piano for Mass and wonder if someone is sitting out there disapproving of my “gospel” style and wishing that the church would go back to the true heritage of great Catholic music and get rid of the piano entirely and just use an organ (and apparently ask a departed saint to rise from the dead and play that organ, since organists are rarer than virgins nowadays).

I am so absurdly relieved and happy when people tell me after Mass that they liked the music. I am especially glad when the priests tell me this. It’s not that I seek praise. I just want to know that I am doing the right thing to play for Mass. Apparently there are people who think the Mass would be better without pianists like me. This is HURTFUL. When I read threads like this, I am very torn because I feel that I should quit rather than offend “traditionalists.”

OTOH, wouldn’t the devil just love it if he could convince me to quit playing the piano, which would mean that the church doesn’t have any music during Mass, which would (sad to say) result in some people leaving the Church to attend the more musical Protestant churches?

My feeling is that you should take your complaints about the music to the priest, and then be willing to accept his reply, as he is the authority that has been appointed by the Church. I am willing to bet that most priests would tell you to be grateful that there is music at Mass, and that unless you are willing to play the organ or piano yourself, to stop criticizing a musician just because they don’t play in a style that pleases your personal preference.

 

[nampal]

Everywhere I see Catholics are increasingly using traditional and modern Protestant songs/hymns in their worship.

If the Protestants can produce theologically correct songs which comprises more than 70% of the hymns used in the Catholic church, and if the Catholics do not use their own hymns for lack of qualities including theological truths how can a Catholic say that their theology is superior to Protestant theology which produced these beautiful hymns?

Let them who have eyes see the truth

 

[Cat]

Everywhere I see Catholics are increasingly using traditional and modern Protestant songs/hymns in their worship.

If the Protestants can produce theologically correct songs which comprises more than 70% of the hymns used in the Catholic church, and if the Catholics do not use their own hymns for lack of qualities including theological truths how can a Catholic say that their theology is superior to Protestant theology which produced these beautiful hymns?

Let them who have eyes see the truth

This thread is very old and a new thread should probably be started.

But I hope that nampal will read this and respond, perhaps by starting the new thread. You state on this thread and at least one other thread that 70% of the hymns used in the Catholic Church are “Protestant.”

This may or may not be the case in your parish, but it is definitely not true in the parishes in our diocese or in any other parish that I have visited since becoming Catholic (in 2004).

What hymnal are you using? I am interested in knowing if you are using a real Protestant hymnal (e.g., Hymns for the Living Church). Or are you using songsheets? If so, what is the publishing company that produced the songsheets? (Please don’t tell us that you are using photocopies of songs without any permission from the publisher/author! That’s a whole other issue, and it’s a crime in the United States.)

Can you please give examples of the hymns that you say are “Protestant?” Are you saying that because the author of the hymns is Protestant, that the hymns are “Protestant?” You do realize that Bach was Protestant? Is his music inappropriate for Catholic Mass?

What exactly is a “Protestant” hymn? Can you cite some examples of theology in the hymns in your parish that are opposed to Catholic theology?

What does your bishop say about the hymnal that your parish is using? Has he approved of the hymnal? (Or more than likely, has he not disapproved of the hymnal?) How about your priest? Does he really approve of “Protestant” hymns?" Does he have any (name removed by moderator)ut into the music that is used in your Mass, or is he totally unaware of the music?

And please cite the statistics, or the source where you got the number “70%.” Have you or has another researcher really conducted a controlled study and surveyed a large number of parishes and analyzed the hymns sung and concluded that “70% of the hymns used are Protestant?” (That would be a really fascinating study, BTW, and I would love to see this study!)

Are we talking about Mass hymns, or are we talking about hymns and songs that people listen to on the radio or their iPod?

And are you in a parish that is Hispanic, Asian, or African American, or some other culture other than “European,” in which the music of that culture is used? If that is the case, then I would not be qualified to analyze the music.

I’ll be honest, hampal, I think you’re totally wrong and that you are just reacting emotionally to a few hymns that you don’t personally like, but I’m certainly willing to listen to you prove your statement about “70%.”

And of course, I realize that your parish might be way off the beaten track of what other parishes are doing and it might be a “rogue parish” that rebelliously ignores the rubrics and does what it pleases, including using music that is either secular or that contains blatant Protestant teachings. (What’s with your priest, if this is the case? Why doesn’t he stop the parish from leading people astray?) If this is your situation, I urge you to attend another parish that is more liturgically-correct and that upholds Catholic teachings.

Thank you.