Protestant missions outnumbering Catholic's

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foolishmortal

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A friend who was in Guatemala for a while had a professor who bemoaned this to him. I read in “The Leaven” that a cardinal bemoaned it as well.

One thing that bothers me about Fr. Groeschel (and some others on EWTN), esp., is how he is always saying how we should be like the Protestants or admire this and that about the spirituality that a select some he comes into contact with has. We should admire speaking in tongues and be interested in the charismatic movement (it seems interesting that the saints that levitated and bilocated had a serious level of cloeness with God just as the apostles, after receiving the Holy Spirit when they spoke in others’ tongues while speaking their own, thus tongues by average Joe worshipper seems like a mockery), it seems. We should take after the poor old Protestant black ladies (what about poor Catholic, Latinas?), he seems to imply. A lot of us Gen Xers don’t even know the Stabat Mater much less that we have to avoid meat on all Fridays or make a sacrifice of some kind. We are having an identity crisis and introducing altar girls, creative pastoral innovations out of step with the development of liturgy, holding hands at the “Our Father”, etc. is very ill-timed to put it charitably.
Catholicism is being proposed as a well, better “faith tradition”. The full truth is being lost in other lands because we have too little pride in our Faith. We don’t see a distinction and the distinctions in Catholic culture being blurred with those of Protestants’ at this time doesn’t help. We may be winning a handful of Protestants with the suggestive approach but they are conquering lands for faiths est. by Satan’s Pride with God’s grace keeping Prot individuals from worse sins of that Pride
 
It is sad that protestant missions are outdoing Catholic ones.

I can’t blame it on our leadership though. I blame it on the laity. The worst examples of the Catholic faith I can find are Catholics themselves. I know that sounds harsh but it’s true.

Why are protestant missions outdoing Catholic missions? It is very simple. Catholics, especially in america expect the clergy to do everything and just come once a week because the “have” to and receive communion.

When you ask 10 Catholics about the faith, only 1 or 2 are going to be able to give you an answer. RCIA is the best example I can give. I’m currently in RCIA joining the church as I have stated way too many times lately, lol. I’m 26 years old. There may be one other person there that is younger than me and the majority in there are cradle Catholics that are sitting in on the class to get a refresher. With the exception of 1, all the cradle Catholics in class are 40+ years old. The scarey thing is, every single convert in the class can run circles around the cradle Catholics in theology. That is not bragging, it is simply true. I am happy however that all those people are now making an effort to learn their faith so they can answer any objections to it.
 
I would like to see some statistics on this, because the Catholic Church is very active in missions. Also, there are priests who actively minister to those in the armed forces; often the only pastor available to those of all faiths. This is a wonderful ministry and as they travel all over the world, an opportunity for mission work as well.

See milarch.org/history/index.html
 
Hey, at least you can say that Fr. Groschel does put “his money where his mouth is”. I was a missionary in Honduras (shares its northern boarder with Guatemala) for almost a year and our lay ministry works with the Friars of the Renewal. Both are communities which are very active in going out and evangelizing via mountian villiage missions, Eucharistic retreats, catechesis, youth discipleship programs, and basic needs ministries.

We live in and go right out into the communities to talk about the Catholic faith correcting those in error and taking on those who would convert Catholics to other Christian sects.

We Catholics need to take a more active role giving our time, talent and treasure. This is where our separated brethern run circles around us. They truly believe that Christ provides and they live accordingly. Sadly, most Catholics give little (be it time, talent or treasure), if any, and usually only from their excess.

I think that is what Fr. Groshel is talking about when he says we can learn from our protestant brothers and sisters.
 
I generally like Fr. Groeschel. He has lots of fascinating knowledge about the Church. Still, Catholics are here to know about our Faith. We don’t know our own heritage. Even Chesterton was for us being in touch with our past. Many don’t have EWTN or know about it.

I think heresy must be stamped out here and abroad. No bloody crusades or bullying of non-Catholics to become Protestants but we can learn from our English seperated brethren. They keep other Faith fromm influence in highest positions
 
I generally like Fr. Groeschel. He has lots of fascinating knowledge about the Church. Still, Catholics are here to know about our Faith. We don’t know our own heritage. Even Chesterton was for us being in touch with our past. Many don’t have EWTN or know about it. He seems to be telling a people most not triumphalistic not tot to be triumphalistic, it seems. He seems to tell us that our only example of good Bible reading is amongst Protestants. He can’t find modern Catholics as knowledgeable as some Protestants about the Bible outside the EWTN complex? Not all Protestants know their Bible as well as he and Mother Angelica joke about them knowing more than us and many (as do many Catholics as well) will call hard teachings in Paul’s letters outdated, out of context, legalistic, irrelevant etc. because Jesus didn’t talk about it. We need to be encouraged to be adequately triumphalistic. Despite their errors, at least non-Ecclesia Dei traditionalists do that (so do the non-erroneous Ecclesia Dei ones) for us. We celebrate all things Catholic (100%). Don’t give us Protestant ideas and practices if we don’t even know the half of our own.

I think heresy must be stamped out here and abroad. No bloody crusades or bullying of non-Catholics to become Protestants but we can learn from our English seperated brethren. They keep those of other Faiths from influence in highest positions. I think Catholic countries should have only Catholic schools but at least only have teachers who exhibit orthodoxy to teach in Catholic schools. The Protestant missionaries have a healthy (healthy in that they are not lukewarm and that they have at least an identity as Protestant–something easier to convert than one who is confused by all kinds of different theories and trends from non-Catholic sources) “at least we’re not Catholic” mentality despite adopting a thing or two from “The Passion” or looking at Church Fathers. All that can be spun to favor Protestantism.
This cannot be tolerated. In “Liberalism is a Sin” the author writes that Protestantism leads to modernism. Hearing the opinions of my co-workers, it sounds reasonable. They have no anchor to hold them at bay despite the tides of the zeitgeist. For a long time we have been as if without a rock and so many Catholics wanted to have the modernist privileges of the Protestants and secularists. God’s Faith should never get serious challenges in Catholic countries amongst people that don’t have the time to get theological and that goes for the bush of Africa as well as the businesspeople of the 1st world nations.
I’m fine with ecumenism amongst scholars of all religions involved. I’m fine, but saddened, with individuals in a Catholic country wanting to be Protestant if they don’t believe in God’s Faith (we have enough phonies running parishes and chanceries and we don’t need more to join them by force).
We are sheep. We act like sheep whatever theological knowledge we have. We need strong leaders. We need Masses not run by priests who put their own creative insights into the liturgy, we need music that is not hip but instead whatever can most resemble the choirs of angels with what resources a parish has, we need art that also teaches truths of the Bible, traditions and Traditions, we need churches that can be seen as high as road signs for strip clubs and casinos, we need to see nuns and priests in their habits so we don’t just see us adults dressed as sluts, bums, spoiled brats and plain old businesspeople and we need sanctuaries that don’t look like the backdrop for a televagelist show. We need Masses at least like EWTN’s and we need orthodoxy taught. We need the principle of sacraments being visible signs of what’s affected applied to all facets of Catholic life. I think we need to say “and with your spirit” despite what some think. To promote a focus on the Eucharist while having a priest asking if anyone has a birthday or having youth rock bands play liturgical music from Iceland in America is like displaying the Constitution while cheerleaders are doing pyramids and clowns are handing out balloons.
But then “witnessing” sounds to ourWestern minds as a lot of talk, I think. Until we iron out these things, I don’t think we’ll take our Faith seriously enough. We definitely could use a forced retirement of a certain cardinal in LA. to get things started ( Laughing) in stamping out heresy here and at home so we can free students from error and indistinguishism so they have a healthy attitude of “at least we aren’t non-Catholic” while carrying on a polite ecumenical dialogue.
But that’s just my opinion. God’s will be done. Maybe he will convert the whole leadership of the World Council of Churches to the Faith with enough prayers, penances and not sinning on our laitys’ part.
 
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foolishmortal:
I generally like Fr. Groeschel. He has lots of fascinating knowledge about the Church. Still, Catholics are here to know about our Faith. We don’t know our own heritage. Even Chesterton was for us being in touch with our past. Many don’t have EWTN or know about it. He seems to be telling a people most not triumphalistic not tot to be triumphalistic, it seems. He seems to tell us that our only example of good Bible reading is amongst Protestants. He can’t find modern Catholics as knowledgeable as some Protestants about the Bible outside the EWTN complex? Not all Protestants know their Bible as well as he and Mother Angelica joke about them knowing more than us and many (as do many Catholics as well) will call hard teachings in Paul’s letters outdated, out of context, legalistic, irrelevant etc. because Jesus didn’t talk about it. We need to be encouraged to be adequately triumphalistic. Despite their errors, at least non-Ecclesia Dei traditionalists do that (so do the non-erroneous Ecclesia Dei ones) for us. We celebrate all things Catholic (100%). Don’t give us Protestant ideas and practices if we don’t even know the half of our own.

I think heresy must be stamped out here and abroad. No bloody crusades or bullying of non-Catholics to become Protestants but we can learn from our English seperated brethren. They keep those of other Faiths from influence in highest positions. I think Catholic countries should have only Catholic schools but at least only have teachers who exhibit orthodoxy to teach in Catholic schools. The Protestant missionaries have a healthy (healthy in that they are not lukewarm and that they have at least an identity as Protestant–something easier to convert than one who is confused by all kinds of different theories and trends from non-Catholic sources) “at least we’re not Catholic” mentality despite adopting a thing or two from “The Passion” or looking at Church Fathers. All that can be spun to favor Protestantism.
This cannot be tolerated. In “Liberalism is a Sin” the author writes that Protestantism leads to modernism. Hearing the opinions of my co-workers, it sounds reasonable. They have no anchor to hold them at bay despite the tides of the zeitgeist. For a long time we have been as if without a rock and so many Catholics wanted to have the modernist privileges of the Protestants and secularists. God’s Faith should never get serious challenges in Catholic countries amongst people that don’t have the time to get theological and that goes for the bush of Africa as well as the businesspeople of the 1st world nations.
I’m fine with ecumenism amongst scholars of all religions involved. I’m fine, but saddened, with individuals in a Catholic country wanting to be Protestant if they don’t believe in God’s Faith (we have enough phonies running parishes and chanceries and we don’t need more to join them by force).
We are sheep. We act like sheep whatever theological knowledge we have. We need strong leaders. We need Masses not run by priests who put their own creative insights into the liturgy, we need music that is not hip but instead whatever can most resemble the choirs of angels with what resources a parish has, we need art that also teaches truths of the Bible, traditions and Traditions, we need churches that can be seen as high as road signs for strip clubs and casinos, we need to see nuns and priests in their habits so we don’t just see us adults dressed as sluts, bums, spoiled brats and plain old businesspeople and we need sanctuaries that don’t look like the backdrop for a televagelist show. We need Masses at least like EWTN’s and we need orthodoxy taught. We need the principle of sacraments being visible signs of what’s affected applied to all facets of Catholic life. I think we need to say “and with your spirit” despite what some think. To promote a focus on the Eucharist while having a priest asking if anyone has a birthday or having youth rock bands play liturgical music from Iceland in America is like displaying the Constitution while cheerleaders are doing pyramids and clowns are handing out balloons.
But then “witnessing” sounds to ourWestern minds as a lot of talk, I think. Until we iron out these things, I don’t think we’ll take our Faith seriously enough. We definitely could use a forced retirement of a certain cardinal in LA. to get things started ( Laughing) in stamping out heresy here and at home so we can free students from error and indistinguishism so they have a healthy attitude of “at least we aren’t non-Catholic” while carrying on a polite ecumenical dialogue.
But that’s just my opinion. God’s will be done. Maybe he will convert the whole leadership of the World Council of Churches to the Faith with enough prayers, penances and not sinning on our laitys’ part.
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I’m a little lost with your rant here. You are talking about a lot but I’m not really sure what your focus is…could you maybe summarize?
 
This is not the time for public apologies by leaders for past atrocities or for hearing about all the interesting devotions of our seperated brethren. A great many don’t even get EWTN or care. I have argued with Catholic relatives using what I’ve learned from EWTN and they think that’s radical! We have churches developed by non-Catholic architecture people, I hear, to where they don’t look Catholic. Even the most virulent secular Catholic Church haters in the media know what is Catholic (they are probably ex-Catholics)–it’s distinguishable from the culture of other churches.
Our Faith and our Faith alone is to be in every part of our culture. Muddying the water with Protestant devotions, hymns, ideas, etc. does not help us no matter how nice they may be. We work all weak and are weary because many of us don’t go to daily Mass and encountering alien elements and music we can hear on a CD or at a concert can’t do much for those of us who aren’t in tune with the “forget what silly things happen in Mass as long as we get Jesus in the Eucharist”. Not all Catholics are on the neo-conservative train and even all who are are not believers in all the Church teaches fundamentally according to that “The New Faithful” author. We need Catholicism in every aspect of our life.
I don’t think we can recognize what the Protestants do do right and maintain a sense of mission in converting others to the Faith if we don’t share their ability to distinguish not just intellectually what is different between us both. We don’t have a healthy “at least we aren’t them” attitude that can coexist with charity. Even if St. Jerome had Jewish help writing the Vulgate, he had Catholicism in all his life. Average Joe Catholic needs that and only that as well, I believe.
“The Journey Home” is really the only good forum for learning what Protestants believe. No other place needs it unless it’s to say where they once agreed with us. Protestants are there to know what we velieve and that’s why we are there as Cathoilics in a secularizing world
 
What Fr. Groeschel was trying to say is to be a good Catholic and be polite, converse and welcome Prodestants with the heart of Christ. Of course we need to stand up to our faith at all times, but we can’t spread His word if we’re too harsh to those who come to our door. They’re doing what they believe is true, it’s just up to us to be the instrument of God and show them by words (evangilizing and praying) and/or by example the Truth.

Now for going door to door…my mom made a very good point on this, and it’s perhaps a huge reason why Catholics generally don’t do this. In the Bible, Jesus NEVER went knocking on a private door uninvited. He didn’t go door to door to preach His word. Jesus went to public places to do that. So all those who were willing to listen and learn could come.

I understand the frusteration of the lack of a difference between some Catholics and prodestants. I’m in an area where there’s enough “liberation” to go around. But remember that’s not the Church talking. This is a result of Catholic individuals and their free will. Some are truly ignorant of the truth too. Don’t become disheartened! There is still a “black-and-white” difference between Catholics and Prodestants. It’s going to be tough, but this is an oppritunity for us to show the true light of Christ through our words and deeds.
 
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jesusluv:
When you ask 10 Catholics about the faith, only 1 or 2 are going to be able to give you an answer. RCIA is the best example I can give. I’m currently in RCIA joining the church as I have stated way too many times lately, lol. I’m 26 years old. There may be one other person there that is younger than me and the majority in there are cradle Catholics that are sitting in on the class to get a refresher. With the exception of 1, all the cradle Catholics in class are 40+ years old. The scarey thing is, every single convert in the class can run circles around the cradle Catholics in theology. That is not bragging, it is simply true.
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Goodess, I’m sure glad I’m not the only one in RCIA with exactly this impression. I’ve only been actively Christian for about 8 years, and I know more about the Bible than the seminary-educated deacon teaching our class. Quite frankly, that makes me nervous!

This fact is a serious impediment to evangelization and missionary work amongst those who are primarily evangelical. Catholics MUST develop a knowledge of Scripture if they expect their missionary efforts to be successful today.
 
Catholic 1.7 HUGE, GLORIOUS, MAMMOTH, BILLION

Protestants only a minute, tiny 500 million

I’d say the Catholics are evangelizing for Jesus just fine. It’s not about numbers as the former Panzer Cardnal proclaimed, it’s about truth, loyalty and staying Faithful to our Savior, Jesus the Christ. Only 1/3 will pass through the fires (i.e. Purgatory) and the Catholic Church is about 1/3 of the world population.

Scripture tells us not everyone who calls on His name will be saved. Just because Protestants call on Him in no way assures salvation. Of course Catholics can only live in Hope as well.

Jesus founded the Catholic Church. The Church gave us the Bible. The Protestants have rewritten, edited, abridged and changed words and meanings but the gist of it is still there, even in the JW version I just looked at yesterday. NOT all Bibles are the same! Some are much better then others. Geneva 1560 version bad, DRV GREAT!

Jesus told us to preach His Gospel and to Baptize all nations. The Protestants just want to memorize Bible verses and base there salvation on an occasional verse that they miss-self-interpret to agree with their man-made theologies of the day. They spew out a verse and expect instant salvation. This is NOT how Jesus commanded us to evangelize. I’ll stick with Jesus.

The Protestants are using the Bible which is OK but Jesus did not give us the Bible, He gave us a Catholic Church. Every Protestant sect I’ve seen is like a bucket with a big hole in the bottom. They keep adding new water (members) in the top and loosing it out the bottom. When the entertainment is good the membership grows, when the entertainment gets old or boring the membership declines. Look at the statistics. The Protestant heresy is slowly dwindling away, dying on the vine so to speak of its own illogic.

The Catholic Church was evangelizing long before we had a Bible. The Protestants (perhaps with the aid of Satan?) invented a new way to try and separate souls from Christ’s body, His Catholic Church. The Church is HUGE and will eventually overcome this setback and then Satan will once again attack the body of Christ with another new technique. It’s an endless cycle.

Just look at the Mid East, the birth place of the Catholic Church. At on time we thrived there until the Muslim religion used the sword and said convert, subjugate, or die. Christ’s body continued to grow, just in a different part of the world.

Look at every Marian appearance and you will see an increase in growth of the Church even though it seemed she lost souls elsewhere. The Protestant De-formation in the 1500’s is offset by growth in the America’s. The loss of the Near East is offset by growth in Europe. Etc…

Don’t you think if the de-formers had truth on their side they would have at least a simple majority of %50+1 of the Christians by now? After 500 years they are loosing and His body is winning as it always will.

Where in the Bible does it say you have to be persuaded by the Bible to be Christian? Who ever memorizes the most in it is the best Christian? Lack of knowledge in it means your a bad or non-Christian. Jesus commanded I have to read and use the Bible to go to heaven? The Protestants rely on the Bible Alone because they have NOTHING else! It’s all they got so they got to be good in it, even if they miss-self-interpret it and spend 500 years coming up with feeble ways to support whatever whim or fancy they believe in that day.

His body continues to grow through the Catholic Church, His visible, authoritative body on earth.

JMJ
 
I did say not to bully Protestants. We should be warm-hearted toward them. We do need a “at least we’re not them” as the Protestants do–as a Christian Faith first and unique of its kind as the one Christ had started and as God’s voicepiece to the Christian people because hell could not prevail over it despite poor management at times.
I don’t think dominantly Catholic nations should allow them to do business in their countries. Why welcome that temptation upon their people. Latin America already had allowed the Masons in at one time. They should not persecute ones who do convert to Protestantism (or even atheism), but they should not be able to make policy in Catholic countries or have influence over Catholic children to prevent what’s still Catholic in them from being lost. It’s not mean-spiritedness; just protection of people’s Faith or what’s left of it.
What’s this Panzer Cardinal? Was he a Nazi once?
 
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Malachi4U:
Where in the Bible does it say you have to be persuaded by the Bible to be Christian? Who ever memorizes the most in it is the best Christian? Lack of knowledge in it means your a bad or non-Christian. Jesus commanded I have to read and use the Bible to go to heaven? The Protestants rely on the Bible Alone because they have NOTHING else! It’s all they got so they got to be good in it, even if they miss-self-interpret it and spend 500 years coming up with feeble ways to support whatever whim or fancy they believe in that day.
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Of course, you’re right in saying that the Bible never calls itself the tool for evangelism. And, you’re also correct in saying what the various Protestant groups do with their interpretations (and often mistranslations) of the Bible. But, if the Catholic Church is to be successful in areas in which the Protestants have already won large numbers of converts (the fastest growing religions in Latin America are Pentecostal and Evangelical - don’t have the numbers in front of me), it has to beat them at their own game, so to speak. Appeals outside of the Bible WILL NOT WORK with people whose sole source of authority is the Bible. I know, I’m a convert because Catholics who were knowledgeable in the Bible were able to show me the error of sola scriptura.

Its a matter of practicality, folks. Divine public revelation came through the church in two forms: sacred tradition and sacred scripture. Both are co-equal, co-authoritative, and absolutely necessary for effective evangelism. But, you can’t evangelize Evangelicals with sacred tradition until you knock down sola scriptura from the Scriptures themselves.
 
Despite the anti-Catholic bigotry I hear of them preaching, the evangelicals may be the easiest to reason with because they are hot and not lukewarm. What they read from the Bible, based on their church’s interpretation, is, Ibelieve, not watered down by emotionalism. I think they are least likely to try to serve God and Zeitgeist even though there are hypocrits amongst them who divorce and remarry and that puffs up the pride of liberal Protestants. Jesus said that such a leader may be a hypocrite but listen to what truth they speak; just don’t do what they do. Jesus came to bring us truth, he said. We can’t refute the truth because the messenger is a hypocrite.
The liberal Protestants are more difficult and their sins may not only be pride but effeminacy because they base Biblical teaching’s context upon their own idle pleasure life. You can’t even quote the Bible because they’ll say they go by their conscience or they interpret it for themselves. Sartan told Adam and Eve they could eat of the apple and know right from wrong and be like gods. That’s what we have here and Catholics, not enough in awe by their own Faith, want to be like them because they can do what they want and even add twisting of the Catechism to add to twisting the Bible. One church of one denomination had a book saying that if we all have grace, we can all be saved. I cited to a relative who was reading it enthusiastically what the Bible said against it. She said I should open my mind. I mentally threw up my arms in disbelievemenrt!
How, EWTN hosts, should I follow the Protestants’ lead in reading the Bible–which one? Catholicism did fine with oral Tradition. We should read the Bible, but we can know the Bible through Church teaching. We fought heresy better then than we do now. I think Pride in our Faith is impressive to those of other Faiths. If we are trying to strip down its distinctiveness to bring them in, I don’t think they are impressed. You can’t win all over with the Bible. You might have to go beyond the intellectual arguments and appeal to the senses of some but not leave them with that as we should not leave Hispanics with the Spanish Mass but integrate them into the rest of the English speakinbg community; same with childrens’ Masses (which I don’t think helps; integrity, not fuzzy-wuzzy stuff, does–kids are no fools).
 
I thought about that this weekend. I do believe things are getting better. We are Christ’s Church and the only one that got the keys and the healing and teaching ministry of Christ. I have hope it will get better because it had despite serious problems within and from without over the last 2000 years and it has maintained it central fundamental teachings on faith and morals throughout it all. If you don’t feel that way from what I write here now, read G.K. Chesterton (He was a genius and smarter than all modernists of all times put together!) and listen to the “Journey Home” of all programs on EWTN.

Phil
 
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