Protestant Objection to Temporal Suffering

[ConMan]

I was discussing with a Protestant the nature of temporal vs. eternal punishment as it relates to penance and brought up the following verse from Paul’s letter to the Colossians to support the idea that we must still pay for the temporal punishments of our sins.

24Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, 25of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, 26the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints.

He responded by stating that Paul held the belief, with many early Christians, that there was a predefined amount of suffering that needed to take place before the second coming of Christ in glory. I have never heard of this belief and was wondering if anyone a)had heard of it and b)had a response to it.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Dan_Defender]

I have never heard of that argument. The passage is very personal, he is talking about his own sufferings during his missionary work.

 

[Cachonga]

I’ve never heard of such a foolish argument. I would ask for a Scriptural reference to support it. As for the verses you used (which is from Colossians), I would remind you that Jesus said we would suffer PERSECUTIONS (not penance), and Paul was referring to his own persecutions.

 

[BartholomewB]

He responded by stating that Paul held the belief, with many early Christians, that there was a predefined amount of suffering that needed to take place before the second coming of Christ in glory.

The Greek word that is usually translated as “suffering” or “affliction” occurs sixteen times in the NT (link below). I just took a quick look at the sixteen passages and found nothing to suggest this idea that your Protestant friend mentioned, about a preset quota of suffering ordained by God. I suggest that you ask him two questions about it:
(1) What is the source of his information that “many early Christians,” including Paul himself, held this belief?
(2) What Protestant church or denomination does your friend belong to, which makes this claim?

Let me stress an important point: For the time being, try not to get sidetracked into the theological question of, in your own words, “the nature of temporal vs. eternal punishment as it relates to penance.” Instead, try and elicit a clear statement about where he got his information from.

http://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_3804.htm

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

Sounds like made up theology to respond to the notion of penance. How do they respond to Psalm 99:8 where the Hebrew people in the desert are described as being forgiven yet punished?

 

[jcrichton]

Wow! …that sounds like one of those ‘hidden’ numerology codes thing hat only the few chosen ones can discern.

The only time that a “fullness of numbers” is stated in Scriptures (as far as I can remember) is this:

25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. (Romans 11)

…as for sufferings, the closest to a number is this:

24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, 25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, 26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. (Colossians 1)

Interestingly enough, though, we know that there was nothing lacking in Christ’s Sacrifice; the Revelation is that we are to offer to God our sacrifice (all of our afflictions) for the Salvation of the world as an imitation of Christ and to be added to His Sacrifice… but this I think is more in term of what God’s Salvific Plan actually encompasses:

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. (Ephesians 1)

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[AmbroseSJ]

When I saw this thread, I was expecting you to use 1 Cor 3: 10-15

10According to the grace of God that is given to me, as a wise architect, I have laid the foundation; and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. 12Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble: 13Every man’s work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is. 14If any man’s work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

 

[GodSoughtMe]

That explanation is novel, ad hoc, and totally unsubstantiated.

He made it up.

 

[ConMan]

I brought that up after his objection and he didn’t really have an answer.