Protestant "Open Church" Movement

[aquila]

My wife has a close Protestant friend who lives in California. The friend is getting involved with a group in the so-called “open church” movement. These folks think (like most Protestants) that they know how to re-create the New Testament church. In particular, they believe that the institutional church was corrupted by pagan accretions in the early centuries and that they are going to devise a home church that is free of them. The friend recommended we read a book entitled, “Pagan Christianity?: Exploring the Roots of Our Church Practices by Frank Viola and George Barna. I have never heard of these guys but I suspect they are anti-Catholics of the first order.

My questions are:

• Does anyone know anything about these guys or their teaching that would be useful in (gently) attempting to correct the friend’s thinking?
• Are there any good Catholic resources that I could use to explain to my wife’s friend why this teaching is untrue?
  Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[universalist]

you must be the amazing kreskin,you can read the minds of most protestants and know what they think! thats impressive!

 

[Rawb]

I’ve never heard of them, but honestly, most of the time you don’t need to. It’ll be the same drivel they’ve been putting out since the reformation.

The problem is there’s no pat answer. You’d have to tackle each issue that the friend/the author brings up. For example they love to harp on Confession. Well you’d have to give the Biblical basis for it, and the Tradition. Then they move on to our devotion to the Blessed Mother. Same thing-Biblical basis and then Tradition from the Early Fathers. Then they’ll move on to the next thing.

Sometimes it’s pointless. They look at you while you’re explaining, loose interest because everything in The Faith is so interconnected and ancient, and not listen because they’re forming their next argument.

But sometimes you get through, which is why we do this at all.

 

[Rightlydivide]

This is essentially what my pastor did. I am sure you will be a good friend and support their decision to follow the Bible.

 

[Ruthie]

Frank Viola is a Christian author and speaker. He graduated from the University of South Florida (Tampa, Florida) with a degree in social science education. For 15 years, he taught in the public school system. His subjects were history, honors philosophy, and AP psychology.

In 1988, Frank left the institutional church. Since that time, he has been gathering in organic churches in the United States. He has also been active in planting, aiding, and encouraging organic churches since the late 90s. In 2003, he began authoring books full time. On occasion, Frank speaks at house church, simple church, organic church, and emerging church conferences.

ptmin.org/biography.php

It doesn’t say which “institutional church” he left.

No, he’s not the wonderful pitcher who helped the Twins win the world Series in 1987.

A native New Yorker, George Barna has filled executive roles in politics, marketing, advertising, media, research and ministry. He founded the Barna Research Group (now The Barna Group) in 1984 and helped it become the nation’s leading marketing research firm focused on the intersection of faith and culture. The company has served several hundred parachurch ministries and thousands of Christian churches throughout the country. It has also supplied research to numerous corporations and non-profit organizations, as well as the U.S. Navy and U.S. Army. To date, Barna has written 39 books…
After graduating summa cum laude from Boston College, Barna earned two Master’s degrees from Rutgers University. At Rutgers, he was awarded the Eagleton Fellowship. He also received a doctorate from Dallas Baptist University.

barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=AboutGeorge

And here’s a pretty scathing review. As far as I can tell, the reviewer is not a Catholic. And another, from a blog at Christianity Today.

HTH,

Ruthie

 

[Cat]

Frank Viola’s books are AWFUL!

Basically he has rejected ALL forms of institutionalized Chrisianity, including most Protestant forms.

His basic premise is that ALL church institutions (vestments, paid clergy, the sermon, buildings, offering monies and tithes, etc.) have their roots in paganism (including Judaism) and therefore should be utterly rejected.

It’s a most bizarre premise. I have to admit that I’m not sure how to argue against him logically. He has twisted history, and in order to argue with him, a person must know true history so that they can un-twist what he has twisted.

He also draws an improper conclusion, IMO–just because something has pagan orgins doesn’t warrant its rejection. But a lot of Christians have fallen for this argument in other areas of life; e.g., Halloween, various musical styles, theater, Harry Potter, etc…

I don’t think a logical argument against Viola’s stuff exists.

IMO, the teachings he presents have the characteristics of a modern-day cult. IMO, the man manifests egomania and megalomania because he rejects the teachings of 2000 years of history and ALL those other teachers and preachers throughout the ages, and claims that HE alone knows the truth and all those people have been and still are wrong. That would include such brilliant people as Augustine of Hippo, Thomas Aquinas, all the Popes, all the declared saints of the Catholic Church, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Pascal, Jonathan Edwards, Cotton Mather, the Campbell brothers, Harriet Beecher Stowe, A.W. Tozer, Billy Graham, Dr. James Dobson, Rick Warren–in short, anyone who has taught or teaches the importance of an “institutionalized church.”

I say it’s a very rare occasion when one person is right and billions of others are wrong. In the lab, we throw out outlying results! I think that we should ignore an “outlier” and stick with the teachings of all our forebears, and I think the Bible supports me in this in Deuteronomy and Jeremiah.

I feel very sorry for your friend, because I believe that the “non-church” model of New Testament “church” that Frank Viola advocates is completely un-workable and impractical, and not at all what our Lord Jesus Christ intended.

These kinds of churches depend on the presence of a charismatic, strong leader to hold things together, even though Mr. Viola is vehemently opposed to an “ordained” leader and believes only in leaders that the Lord Himself appoints, and he says this appointment will be obvious to all the people. (One of my questions is, by what authority do the people decide who is a leader appointed by the Lord?)

My suggestion is that you back away from arguing with her–at this point, she is basically involved with a “cult” and you won’t be able to argue with her.

Just be loving and try to stay within her circle of friends (she will possibly stop seeing you and shun you). But eventually her “church”–or I should say, her “non-church” will implode–then hopefully you will still be there to help her through the emotional and spiritual crisis and to be able to offer her the True Church of Jesus Christ.

And I would suggest that unless you have a very strong faith and access to really good teachers in your parish, that you NOT read Viola’s books, and do NOT under any circumstances allow a child or a teenager, or a new Christian or new Catholic, to read these books! They are seductively-written. They darken the soul and fill you with despair.

 

[aquila]

Thanks to all, especially Cat and Ruthie, for helpful replies. My wife’s friend seems to be in a denomination-hopping mode right now, so perhaps in a few months, this will pass. In the meantime, I have located a copy of the book in question in my local library system, and will read it for myself when it becomes available. I am acquainted with several prominent Catholic theologians who will be able to keep me on an even keel, Cat.

BTW, I am on the 2008 Tiber swim team, but was a Christian of several Protestant persuasions for a quarter-century before that.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[jmcrae]

Frank Viola’s books are AWFUL!

Basically he has rejected ALL forms of institutionalized Chrisianity, including most Protestant forms.

His basic premise is that ALL church institutions (vestments, paid clergy, the sermon, buildings, offering monies and tithes, etc.) have their roots in paganism (including Judaism) and therefore should be utterly rejected.

This seems like it would be a seed for their ultimate destruction. How do they plan to pay for this project? They have basically just cut off almost every source of possible funding - you can’t say, “It’s a sin to give money to the Church; that’s a pagan idea,” and then turn around and ask people to give money to their church.

And if he doesn’t pay his members of clergy, how does he expect to retain them over the long term? If they are working for a living in the secular world, they’ll be subject to the whims of their bosses, as far as where they live, and how much free time they have to devote to being a volunteer preacher of God’s Word. (What happens if they get called into work on a Sunday? It’s not like replacing a Lector or EMHC at the last minute - people need time to study and work on their sermons.)

 

[Steadfast]

NOTE: Some Protestants “think they can recreate the first century church”.

By far the majority of Protestants understand the church to be an organically evolving entity with varying degrees of stress on certain historical/traditional propositions.