Protestant "Saints"

[DrPiano]

As a Protestant, at least currently, one of the people of the faith I most admire, particularly for his zeal and energy and enthusiasm for the faith as well as his strong call for people to live sanctified lives was John Wesley (and by extension Charles Wesley). In a time when the spiritual life of England was dying out for the most part, especially among the lower classes, he took the sacraments (or at least what he saw as the sacraments) back to the people. His preaching brought many back to the church. Unfortunately, the Anglican church didn’t like it and kicked him out.

Anyway - it was in studying his theology that I started traveling toward the Catholic church. He took me from being primarily a “symbol-only” believer (and denial of anything resembling purgatory) to believing in the graces present in the sacraments (Eucharist and Baptism at least) and a belief in something other than heaven or hell. Heck, he was accused of being too Catholic by some of his contemporaries (I don’t remember who, I just remember reading it somewhere).

I have a feeling that by now he’s finished with Purgatory and has received the Beatific vision - of course I can’t be certain but…

I’d say he (and of course Charles) are right up there with the Catholic Saints.

Also, I’d put C.S. Lewis on the list.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents…

 

[rr1213]

As a Protestant, at least currently, one of the people of the faith I most admire, particularly for his zeal and energy and enthusiasm for the faith as well as his strong call for people to live sanctified lives was John Wesley (and by extension Charles Wesley). In a time when the spiritual life of England was dying out for the most part, especially among the lower classes, he took the sacraments (or at least what he saw as the sacraments) back to the people. His preaching brought many back to the church. Unfortunately, the Anglican church didn’t like it and kicked him out.

I also consider John and Charles Wesley as admirable saints, but the Anglican Church did not “kick them out”. They both died as Anglicans.

 

[allischalmers]

I totally agree with you, so allow me to narrow my question again.

Do the graces God gives through His Holy Catholic Church make any different toward Jesus command to be perfect, as His Father in Heaven is perfect?

Would you say that every Christian, regardless of denomination or belief is equally able to come to a place of perfect sanctity, or become Saints?

I would say no. God has given the Sacraments, the Blessed Mother, the teaching authority, and other graces to make a real difference in His people. As a result, His Catholic fold is more capable of living the type of life He has called to.

Furthermore, I believe the “proof is in the pudding,” however it’s lived out, as you accurately portrayed it.

I would say YES Every Christian is able to come to place of perfect sanctity. God’s command to very Christian is "be ye holy as your Father in heaven is holy

 

[Cat]

Unless you know every person who has never lived, you don’t have a right to say that only certain people became like Christ.

There have been so many anonymous Christian saints through the ages. I’m sure that many of these were Protestant.

Like I said, we’ll all be very surprised in heaven.

 

[Cardinalsong]

Our Lord watched people putting money into the box outside the temple. Some people put tremendous amounts of money into the box, but a poor widow put in only two mites.

Jesus told His disciples that she gave the most, because she gave everything she had.

I think that we will all be surprised who is the most honored saint in heaven. Perhaps a janitor or a nurse or a person with locked-in syndrome who spent their whole life in a wheelchair will be more honored in heaven then some of the best-known saints.

**Many people give “all that they have” and receive absolutely NO recognition for it. They are completely anonymous and not even at their funeral are their good words for Our Lord made public. IMO, these are the greatest saints of all, and only the Lord knows who they are. **
So IMO, to compare the good works and holiness of various Christians is meaningless. The person who is least in the eyes of men is most important in the eyes of God.

When it comes to Billy Graham’s personal wealth being used to feed the poor, I can testify as an ex-Protestant that he was one of the first of the modern evangelicals to advocate sacrificial giving to feed the hungry, and he has never taught a “Health and Wealth” gospel like so many other “televangelists.” Samaritan’s Purse was born out of that concern for the needy.

Well said!

That being said, I still don’t think they have the same degree of zeal as Catholic Saints. Their degree of holiness and willingness to suffer seems to me unparalleled. (Perhaps some Eastern Orthodox Saints fit the bill) Far fewer Protestants remained celibate and reject all personal possessions.

So if someone who is doing the Lord’s work to the best of their knowledge and faith dies a martyr’s death, they wouldn’t be considered as holy a saint as a Catholic saint? That doesn’t seem to make sense IMO.

 

[ronnok20]

As a Protestant, at least currently, one of the people of the faith I most admire, particularly for his zeal and energy and enthusiasm for the faith as well as his strong call for people to live sanctified lives was John Wesley (and by extension Charles Wesley). In a time when the spiritual life of England was dying out for the most part, especially among the lower classes, he took the sacraments (or at least what he saw as the sacraments) back to the people. His preaching brought many back to the church. Unfortunately, the Anglican church didn’t like it and kicked him out.

this is not true. The Anglican church did not kick Wesley out.

 

[DrPiano]

I also consider John and Charles Wesley as admirable saints, but the Anglican Church did not “kick them out”. They both died as Anglicans.

Sorry for the slight mis-remembering of history (its been too long since my church history class). While the Anglican church did not kick John and Charles out, the church DID refuse his followers the sacraments, eventually leading John and Charles to formalize the organization of their separate society, although he never really wanted to do that. From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

Although Wesley always intended to remain within the Church of England, circumstances gradually led him to give his evangelistic movement a separate organization. The exclusion of his followers from the sacraments by the Anglican clergy in 1740 overcame his hesitation to administer them in his own meeting-rooms. The increase in the number of Societies led the following year to the institution of the lay preachers, who became an important factor in the success of the Methodist propaganda. The year 1742 saw the creation of the “class” system, and two years later the first annual conference was held. Desirous of ensuring the perpetuation of his work, he legally constituted it his successor in 1784. By a deed of declaration filed in the High Court of Chancery, he vested the right of appointing ministers and preachers in the conference composed of one hundred itinerant preachers. This “Legal Hundred” enjoyed, in respect to the conference, the power of filling vacancies and of expelling unworthy members. On the refusal of the Bishop of London to ordain two ministers and a superintendent for America, Wesley, convinced that bishop and presbyter enjoyed equal rights in the matter, performed the ordination himself (1784).

However, you are right- they weren’t kicked out, per se. The general gist I was getting at though, is that they intended to bring revival to England, not start a separate denomination. Anyway- he had a passion for Christ and his church. Sorry my history is a bit rusty!