Protestant Songs at Mass

[gracepoole]

gracepoole:

Complaint after complaint that no one was singing “On Eagle’s Wings” anymore. It’s easy to claim that parishes don’t have access to great musicians. But the reality is that often, older parishioners are hellbent on keeping things status quo and refuse to allow for changes.

I wonder, how did this come about?
Did the “new” music director come in and take over, without any (name removed by moderator)ut from the parish?

This happened at my old parish. A new priest came, hired a new music director after firing the Faith formation secretary and the part time maintenance person, who then “dismissed” all the musicians who had led the music ministry, on a volunteer basis, for 25 years.

Needless to say, there was lots of yelling, anger and tears. The Pastor and the MD would not listen, claimed they had the Church on their side and did away with hymns for the most part. The antiphons are chanted, and there is a ressional hymn.

Now, some may laud the Pastor, but he tore this parish apart. Many people left, and while some have come because of the musical change, their numbers do not equal those that left, and their contributions are not making up for the lost income.
There are always two sides to a story, am3d usually when music is involved, someone has a “my way or the highway” attitude.

It came about because the deacon needed to hire a new music director and he found one at the aforementioned school who wanted the job. The parish hadn’t had volunteer musicians previously.

 

[Peeps]

Well how is it that everyone had “European style Mass” for centuries and the Church converted and educated the world? They had “European style Mass” in the south before and it helped produce Flannery O’Connor, Walker Percy, et al.

That was then.

This is now.

Yes, the Catholic Church in the Southern U.S. produced people like Flannery O’Connor (whom, by the way, I have tried to read, and just don’t get what the big fuss is all about), and Walker Percy, whom I have never heard of.

But if you look around, the Catholic Church in the Southern U.S. also didn’t prevent some pretty evil people from doing their evil things; e.g., Delphine LaLurie in New Orleans.

You think that restoring all the old ways would revive the Catholic Church. Don’t you think that if the Pope and the Magisterium believed the same, that they would immediately restore all the old ways for the sake of the souls of all believers?

But they don’t. Why do you think they don’t COMMAND the Churches to drop the modern hymns and musical styles and immediately return to chanting and polyphony?

 

[Peeps]

Why, if I’m Joe Catholic, do I have to be deprived of liturgical music at a particular parish, but if I were to go to a different parish, I maybe could get decent liturgical music? What would determine which parish gets decent liturgical music or not? Is it based on the average income in a parish? Average educational level? Presence or absence of immigrants? History of a particular parish? Please fill us in! @Peeps @pnewton

Pnewton has given you some good answers to consider.

My answer to your question is that you are “deprived of liturgical music” because there are very few musicians who would be knowledgeable enough or capable of presenting the kind of music you are referring to, especially when they are already up to the top of their ears in responsibilities, and trying to earn enough money to live on.

Also, many musicians in many parishes are volunteers and have NO AUTHORITY to change the music that the Music/Liturgy Director, with the full approval of the PRIEST, has selected.

I work full time, and I play at my parish when our Music/Liturgy Director is unable to play for some very good reason. It is difficult enough for me to pull the music together and prepare to play, especially when there is a piece that I could use the pipe organ for. I am not a good enough organist that I can just sit down and play the hymn–I absolutely HAVE to practice in advance, and the times that I can do that in my parish are very VERY limited, and often, I am not able to get off work on time to get to the parish before their office hours are over.

So I play the piano instead of the organ, which perhaps you find “non-liturgical” or even offensive or worldly. But it’s an instrument that I can play in my sleep, or more accurately, after I have worked a long day and have dashed lickety-split over to the parish to be on time to play as a non-paid substitute. No prep necessary, at least for me.

Many pianists DO need the preparation, and again, like me (and probably you, too), the have busy lives, possibly a full-time job, and possibly children or older relatives that they care for. Practicing is not a five-minute task.

And finally, when a musician busts their chops to get all the Mass music together, and spends some free time practicing, and does their darned best during the Mass…and then reads the disparaging comments about “banal music,” and “that piano player who would fit right in at a hootenanny”–well, it’s no wonder most musicians say “No,” when asked if they would be willing to substitute for a Mass. It’s not easy to play when invisible rotten vegetables are being thrown at you.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

Also, many musicians in many parishes are volunteers and have NO AUTHORITY to change the music that the Music/Liturgy Director, with the full approval of the PRIEST, has selected.

Our Liturgical Committe is all Volunteer and sets the Liturgical Music several months in advance. It must meet the definition of liturgical as compared to devotional hymns, seasonal requirements, requests from the Bishop or Priests for specific Masses. Each Mass will have several choices for hymns. Different choirs can the pick and choose from these choices. We have a hymn boom ‘Gather Australia’ . It has the full list of Hymns.

It must not be a performance.

 

[CilladeRoma]

It must not be a performance.

This is so important, and sadly often overlooked, especially when “proper” sacred music is used.
There is a parish close to me that has a small, but very talented choir, with a professional musician as a director. Everything they sing is way beyond the limits of the average pew-sitter, and sadly, it is like a performance. The parish has even started using music not in the hynmals as a way to “discourage” the congregation from joining in the singing.

 

[pnewton]

Well how is it that everyone had “European style Mass” for centuries and the Church converted and educated the world?

Inculturation has been a part of the Catholic Church from day one. The Church is only Roman, not Jewish, because of its willingness to adapt to the culture. That is why we use Latin, not Greek. This is founded in its its first and greatest theologian who said.

Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

Inflexibility never was part of the Church. It might have been. There were some that wanted to emulate the Pharisees in this, making all converts become good Jews in order to be Christian. This, by the way, is one of the accusations that got Paul arrested and shipped to Rome.

I know that losing one’s roots by being overly progressive has its dangers as well, but it doesn’t seem to have the smothering affect of excessive immovability has, at least in my experience. My own parish is already overflowing after the second remodeling to make more room, and going to 5 Masses. I would say the choices we are making work. That is the purpose of subsidiarity, evangelization where one is, not pleasing those who do not even know your little town exists.

 

[gracepoole]

My answer to your question is that you are “deprived of liturgical music” because there are very few musicians who would be knowledgeable enough or capable of presenting the kind of music you are referring to, especially when they are already up to the top of their ears in responsibilities, and trying to earn enough money to live on.

So some musicians can handle “Be Not Afraid” but they can’t handle anything beyond the Gather hymnal? Yeah, sorry, that dog don’t hunt. I doubt anyone’s requiring them to play as though they’re performing at the Vatican. But it might be nice to move beyond the 1970s selection…

 

[gracepoole]

OurLadyofSorrows:

It must not be a performance.

This is so important, and sadly often overlooked, especially when “proper” sacred music is used.
There is a parish close to me that has a small, but very talented choir, with a professional musician as a director. Everything they sing is way beyond the limits of the average pew-sitter, and sadly, it is like a performance. The parish has even started using music not in the hynmals as a way to “discourage” the congregation from joining in the singing.

It shouldn’t be a performance – but it should be transcendent. And I’d say that 75% of the Gather hymnal doesn’t hit that mark.

 

[pnewton]

It shouldn’t be a performance – but it should be transcendent. And I’d say that 75% of the Gather hymnal doesn’t hit that mark.

What should it transcend? I would agree that maybe half of the hymns seem mundane. Many are ground out by staff musicians to save money. Even the best composers turn out more mediocrity that good stuff. But do you mean that music should transcend the level of the lay people where they are? That doesn’t match the way God works, based on Philippians 2, where Jesus is not transcending up, but descending down.

Mass is not only reaching up toward God, it is also reaching out to each other.

 

[gracepoole]

gracepoole:

It shouldn’t be a performance – but it should be transcendent. And I’d say that 75% of the Gather hymnal doesn’t hit that mark.

What should it transcend?

tran·scend·ent

/ˌtran(t)ˈsend(ə)nt/

adjective

adjective: transcendent

1. beyond or above the range of normal or merely physical human experience.

“the search for a transcendent level of knowledge”

• surpassing the ordinary; exceptional.
• (of God) existing apart from and not subject to the limitations of the material universe.

Surely what happens at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass should go beyond the range of normal or merely physical experience. It should surpass the ordinary because the Mass itself surpasses the ordinary.

 

[pnewton]

Surely what happens at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass should go beyond the range of normal or merely physical experience

That is a good question, and there are several ways to look at it. What is transcendent, to me, seems mostly to be on the part of God. All we bring to the table is ordinary bread and wine. We do not even bring the best or fanciest of breads, lest we invalidate the work of God. So, spiritually, there is the greatest transcendence. Yet physically, it is deliberately the most mundane. Likewise, the incarnation is the greatest spiritual transcendence, while physically, the lowest of human experiences.

So in the Mass, while we bring our best before God, I think it a mistake to think somehow our part is transcendent, lest we make ourselves more that God. Rather, I think we should approach what we do as much as a service to others, as a sacrifice to God, the vertical and horizontal thing.

From your point of view, I understand your desire. It is a laudable response to the presence of God. From the point of view of God, I would think it would be the hearts of those present that should be transcendent. This is why I believe it best to keep the liturgy locally directed, as what best helps those hearts approach God varies a heck of a lot. Not everyone is lifted up high on Gregorian chant, or Eagle’s Wings, for two examples.

 

[gracepoole]

In my admittedly limited experience, most parishes are being bound to “On Eagle’s Wings” and the like because older parishioners refuse any change. This goes beyond music, too (again, in my limited experience). It’s true that not everyone is lifted up high by Gregorian chant but how many even have the opportunity for any music beyond the Gather hymnal? And given that the history of music is in large part the history of the Catholic Church, why are we settling for protestant hymns?

 

[Peeps]

So some musicians can handle “Be Not Afraid” but they can’t handle anything beyond the Gather hymnal? Yeah, sorry, that dog don’t hunt. I doubt anyone’s requiring them to play as though they’re performing at the Vatican. But it might be nice to move beyond the 1970s selection…

I could probably play anything the Music/Liturgy Director handed me, as long as I had some time to practice. I would be uncomfortable playing difficult pieces on the organ; I’m strictly a beginning/intermediate organist.

I’m a skilled pianist who has accompanied great pieces (e.g., selections from Handel’s Messiah).

But I definitely have my limits. Recently I tried to help a choir learn a Palestrina piece for Mass, it was not good. All of us, including me, got lost many times. We never did present the piece in Mass. We just couldn’t nail it down.

As for chant–as far as I know, chant should be unaccompanied. When I have played for the Latin Mass parish, I just give the starting note, and sometimes I don’t even do that. The men who chant are very experienced and do not need the help of an accompanist. But I don’t think all singers would be as comfortable reading chant as these fine men who have done it all their lives. I am a stellar sight-singer, but I have a very hard time reading chant (if I could do it in English, it would help–trying to read a foreign language and a line of notes Is difficult for me).

And chanting uses different singing techniques than “Be Not Afraid.” I’m sure that some singers could learn the technique–and others couldn’t, even though you seem to think that it’s not all that difficult. Yes, that dog sometimes DOES hunt!

I know that I have never been successful in reading neumes. Maybe with a lot of training I would pick it up.

Perhaps it wasn’t your intent, but your post makes it sound like you think church musicians like me are just making excuses so that we can continue doing the Gather hymns.

If this isn’t what you are saying, I apologize.

I want to assure you that most of us are not “performers,” but servants of God and the Church, and we are happy to play/sing what is asked of us by the priest. Most of us are NOT paid, and those who are paid do not receive a large salary unless they live in a large city.

And I stand by my answer. My college degree is Biology and Medical Technology, not Liturgical Music. I’m working on reading some books, but finding the time to sit down and study them is difficult between the full-time job, the family responsibilities, and my involvements with various church and community activities. There is a position for Part Time Music/Liturgy Director at one of the parishes in our city where I have played often–I know better than to apply. I just don’t have the chops for it.

 

[gracepoole]

Perhaps it wasn’t your intent, but your post makes it sound like you think church musicians like me are just making excuses so that we can continue doing the Gather hymns.

Actually I’m saying – again, in my admittedly limited experience – that it’s usually a group of parishioners who don’t allow for any changes to music. I shared a story earlier in which a professional hired musician was made a music director and rather than stretch themselves to enjoy different pieces, people complained that they weren’t hearing the old standards.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

I dont know the Gather Hymnal, being in Australia. We use a Hymnal called Gather Australia. Hymns and the Great Amen, Gloria, Agnus Dei and Sanctus should lift our prayer in a way the spoken word cannot do. We should not lose sight that the Music ministers are part of the Assembly, as is the celebrant. The primary job of the Music Ministry is to lead in prayerful hymns and to teach the Assembly new and existing hymns chosen for their Mass.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

In my admittedly limited experience, most parishes are being bound to “On Eagle’s Wings”

This is a hymn that speaks of God protecting His people during the events of the Exodus. It meets the definition of liturgical Music. It really should be rostered a little more sparingly and the Assembly taught a larger selection if it has become a little tired.

Is the Gather Hymnal set by the Bishops Conference ? The Australian Hymnal is set by ours.

@Peeps we have very similar to Chant for the verses of the Responsorial Psalm. We use the Pipe Organ. The entire Assembly sings the Response, the Choir chants the verses, with Pipe Organ accompaniment.